Collision Avoidance Systems

jcarlyle wrote:
Last week, before the Minden midair, I reviewed Collision Avoidance

Zaon MRX - This was the one I bought. Pros - shows threat distance
and height; receives civilian signals A, C, S and 3/A, as well as
military signals X, Y and 2 (snip)

WTF are military signals X and Y? Military uses IFF modes 1, 2, 3
(same as civilian mode A or 3/A), C (same as civilian mode C - gives
altitude only), 4 (secure), and S. I'm hoping "X" and "Y" are modes 1
and 4, since most military traffic have those on all the time-
especially mode 4.

Neat device, though, and definitely on my xmas list!

Kirk
66

"jcarlyle" wrote in message
ups.com...

Zaon MRX - This was the one I bought. Pros - shows threat distance
and height; receives civilian signals A, C, S and 3/A, as well as
military signals X, Y and 2; alerts are visual and aural (high pitched
beeps); uses internal power (but can use aircraft power); is the
smallest system available; can be panel mounted with remote antenna.
Cons - does not show threat direction; doesn't output threats via
RS232 to PocketPC type devices. List price $499


Even after reading the web site and the manual, I am not clear about the
audio alert provided by this unit. Does it lack a method to hear the alert
through your headset? If so, it would be great for glider use, but perhaps
worse than useless in an airplane because the tiny speaker would be inaudible,
thus the gadget would just give you one more reason to keep your eyes focused
inside the cockpit.

Inquiring minds want to know.


Vaughn (a guy who goes both ways)

Kirk, will a TPAS which can only receive mode A,C, and S will detect
any military aircraft?

kirk.stant wrote:
jcarlyle wrote:
Last week, before the Minden midair, I reviewed Collision Avoidance

Zaon MRX - This was the one I bought. Pros - shows threat distance
and height; receives civilian signals A, C, S and 3/A, as well as
military signals X, Y and 2 (snip)

WTF are military signals X and Y? Military uses IFF modes 1, 2, 3
(same as civilian mode A or 3/A), C (same as civilian mode C - gives
altitude only), 4 (secure), and S. I'm hoping "X" and "Y" are modes 1
and 4, since most military traffic have those on all the time-
especially mode 4.

Neat device, though, and definitely on my xmas list!

Kirk
66

Ian Cant wrote:
Who would like to use existing technology to come
up with one fit-and-forget unit that would act as a
flight recorder, GPS-enabled ELT, mainly-passive alert
and transmit-on-alert-only transponder ?

Speaking as a Libelle driver with one spare panel slot and a maximum
battery capacity of 2 x 7Ah, I'd settle for something like a combination
of the Zaon MRX and a Microair or Filser transponder in a single 57mm
package. I'd be happy to use one battery for transponder + radio and
reserve the other for varios, GPS and iPAQ.

Both these transponders fit a 57mm mount and are fairly light with low
power consumption. Adding the TPAS capability and using the same display
should make little difference to the package size while adding about 15%
to overall power consumption.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

Vaughn, Kirk,

The easy one first - no, there is no headset output on the MRX. I
talked with our tow pilot today, and he, too, identified this as a
drawback for power planes. The XRX does have such an output, as does
the ADT-300 and the Proxalert R5.

As for military signals X and Y, the manual is no help. After a bit of
Googling, I'll take a guess, though - I think these refer to Tacan
signals. One of the frequencies Tacan can transmit on is 1090 MHz, like
a transponder. Unknown to me is whether a Tacan signal has altitude
encoded in it, but it appears that the output power of a Tacan unit is
the same as a transponder, so the distance measurement scheme these CAS
units use would work. Again, just a guess - what I don't know about
military flying would fill large books!

I flew today with the MRX, and I can report that in my ASW-19 it works
very well. I was amazed at how much traffic it picked up that I was
unaware of until the traffic got within 2 miles or so. The real
benefit, though, was the MRX alerting me to a helicopter that was at
500 feet, a half mile away, and was vectoring in on the tow plane and I
just after takeoff. To me, the $500 cost of the MRX has already been
repaid! On another note, in my ASW-19 I wouldn't want anything bigger
than the MRX on the glareshield. I know the XRX wouldn't fit, and I
don't think the Proxalert R5 would either (although the ADT-300 would).

-John

Vaughn Simon wrote:
Even after reading the web site and the manual, I am not clear about the
audio alert provided by this unit. Does it lack a method to hear the alert
through your headset? If so, it would be great for glider use, but perhaps
worse than useless in an airplane because the tiny speaker would be inaudible,
thus the gadget would just give you one more reason to keep your eyes focused
inside the cockpit.

kirk.stant wrote:
WTF are military signals X and Y? Military uses IFF modes 1, 2, 3
(same as civilian mode A or 3/A), C (same as civilian mode C - gives
altitude only), 4 (secure), and S. I'm hoping "X" and "Y" are modes 1
and 4, since most military traffic have those on all the time-
especially mode 4.

John, Raul and other MRX users

How does the MRX perform when thermalling?
The manual suggests that the aerial should be vertical
for good reception and for the software calculations.

Does it give the right sort of readout, and beep at
the right time when you are thermalling?

Rory


At 13:30 30 August 2006, Jcarlyle wrote:

Zaon MRX - This was the one I bought.

Rory,

I flew with my new MRX three times yesterday, but unfortunately each
flight was a sleigh ride - no thermals were found. As we've got Ernesto
moving in, I'm afraid I won't be able to answer your question for a
week or so.

Hopefully someone else can tell you sooner!

-John

Rory O'Conor wrote:
John, Raul and other MRX users

How does the MRX perform when thermalling?
The manual suggests that the aerial should be vertical
for good reception and for the software calculations.

Does it give the right sort of readout, and beep at
the right time when you are thermalling?

As for military signals X and Y, the manual is no help. After a bit of
Googling, I'll take a guess, though - I think these refer to Tacan
signals. One of the frequencies Tacan can transmit on is 1090 MHz, like
a transponder. Unknown to me is whether a Tacan signal has altitude
encoded in it, but it appears that the output power of a Tacan unit is
the same as a transponder, so the distance measurement scheme these CAS
units use would work. Again, just a guess - what I don't know about
military flying would fill large books!


I thought of that, but think it's unlikely. TACAN is basically a UHF
"VOR"/DME equivalent, and is also used by civilians - airliners and
bizjets - and civilian DME is the distance measuring part of TACAN.
TACANs have both X and Y channels, Y being used for Air-to-Air distance
and bearing between cooperating aircraft (useless info: must set your
TACAN channels 63 apart to work: CH 29Y and CH 92Y are commonly used).
Anyway, only the DME portion transmits, the bearing portion is receive
only - like VOR. So it's unlikely that TACAN signals are being used,
in my opinion. If they are, then civilian DME should also trigger the
TPAS!

But I could be wrong...

Kirk

Kirk

Kirk,

I called up Zaon, and they said that the X and Y signal modes they
receive are indeed DME.

-John

wrote:
I thought of that, but think it's unlikely. TACAN is basically a UHF
"VOR"/DME equivalent, and is also used by civilians - airliners and
bizjets - and civilian DME is the distance measuring part of TACAN.
TACANs have both X and Y channels, Y being used for Air-to-Air distance
and bearing between cooperating aircraft (useless info: must set your
TACAN channels 63 apart to work: CH 29Y and CH 92Y are commonly used).
Anyway, only the DME portion transmits, the bearing portion is receive
only - like VOR. So it's unlikely that TACAN signals are being used,
in my opinion. If they are, then civilian DME should also trigger the
TPAS!

jcarlyle wrote:
Kirk,

I called up Zaon, and they said that the X and Y signal modes they
receive are indeed DME.


Interesting.

Then it should also see civilian DME. Too bad GPS is pretty much
replacing DME in military and civilian aircraft.

Thanks for the info - learned something new!

Kirk
66