Insurance

Does that actually happen, though, other than in cases of gross negligence
by the pilot? I know about subrogation, but I've never heard of it being
invoked.

Yes, it does happen, I know personally of an individual (student pilot)
who asked the FBO up front "Am I covered under your policy?, Do I need
renters insurance?". The answer was yes you are covered, and no you
dont need insurance.

Fast forward a couple of months, and the pilot is flying his first solo
x/c into an unfamiliar airport, and he has a rough landing resulting in
a prop strike. The airplane is recovered, repaired and the returned to
service. The pilot goes on to complete his PVT certificate. A couple
months go by. The pilot then receives a threatening demand letter from
the FBO's insurer asking him to repay the $10000+ repair bill.

My opinions:

- Dont EVER rely on someone else to provide insurance coverage for you.
Even if you have thoroughly have read and understood their insurance
contract, how do you know that they paid the bill that month and that
the policy is even in force?

- Get SOME renters insurance. ANY amount is better than none at all.
What you are really buying is legal representation. Even if you get
named in some trivial lawsuit it can be very costly to clear your name.


Richard

wrote in message
oups.com...
Fast forward a couple of months, and the pilot is flying his first solo
x/c into an unfamiliar airport, and he has a rough landing resulting in
a prop strike. The airplane is recovered, repaired and the returned to
service. The pilot goes on to complete his PVT certificate. A couple
months go by. The pilot then receives a threatening demand letter from
the FBO's insurer asking him to repay the $10000+ repair bill.

Ok, thanks, that's good to know. (Did he end up having to pay the bill?)

- Dont EVER rely on someone else to provide insurance coverage for you.
Even if you have thoroughly have read and understood their insurance
contract, how do you know that they paid the bill that month and that
the policy is even in force?

If the FBO advertises in writing that rental pilots are covered by its
insurance, and that turns out not to be the case (due to a lapse in the
FBO's premium payments, or for any other reason), then I'd imagine that the
pilot could sue to recover from the FBO any damages that the insurance
company had sued to recover from the pilot.

--Gary

writes:

Fast forward a couple of months, and the pilot is flying his first solo
x/c into an unfamiliar airport, and he has a rough landing resulting in
a prop strike. The airplane is recovered, repaired and the returned to
service. The pilot goes on to complete his PVT certificate. A couple
months go by. The pilot then receives a threatening demand letter from
the FBO's insurer asking him to repay the $10000+ repair bill.

A threatening letter is very different from a successful lawsuit.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

On 2006-09-25, Bob Gardner wrote:
Because the FBO's insurance protects him, not you? If you cause damage to
his airplane, his insurance will cover his costs and then come after you.

I can't be the only one to think insurance is a scam. The insurance
companies get it both ways - the FBO gets "insured", and then each
renter has to insure against the FBO's insurance company litigating!
Really, the FBO's insurance isn't aircraft insurance, it's legal cover
because they aren't really covering the aircraft as such - they are
covering the legal action to sue the renter.

--
Yes, the Reply-To email address is valid.
Oolite-Linux: an Elite tribute: http://oolite-linux.berlios.de

"Dylan Smith" wrote in message
...
On 2006-09-25, Bob Gardner wrote:
Because the FBO's insurance protects him, not you? If you cause damage to
his airplane, his insurance will cover his costs and then come after you.

I can't be the only one to think insurance is a scam. The insurance
companies get it both ways - the FBO gets "insured", and then each
renter has to insure against the FBO's insurance company litigating!

I guess that depends on what the coverage costs. Insurance companies insure
against a specific risk. In the case of the FBO, assuming the FBO has not
agreed to hold the renter harmless, then if they had no insurance they would
still have the right to go after the renter.

But there is considerable expense and risk associated with that. So most
FBOs choose instead to consolidate that risk into an insurance policy.

Assuming the insurance company is charging a premium appropriate to coverage
of that risk, rather than appropriate to the actual risk of an airplane
being flown hundreds of hours a year by the average rental pilot, I see
nothing wrong with the strategy.

And for what it's worth, whether you think it's a scam or not, the scenario
is not unique to aviation insurance.

Really, the FBO's insurance isn't aircraft insurance, it's legal cover
because they aren't really covering the aircraft as such - they are
covering the legal action to sue the renter.

If you understand that, then why do you say the coverage is a scam? Two
different policies, taken out by two different individuals, to cover two
entirely different activities.

Pete

Dylan Smith wrote in
:

On 2006-09-25, Bob Gardner wrote:
Because the FBO's insurance protects him, not you? If you cause damage to
his airplane, his insurance will cover his costs and then come after you.

I can't be the only one to think insurance is a scam. The insurance
companies get it both ways - the FBO gets "insured", and then each
renter has to insure against the FBO's insurance company litigating!
Really, the FBO's insurance isn't aircraft insurance, it's legal cover
because they aren't really covering the aircraft as such - they are
covering the legal action to sue the renter.


The whole legal system in the US is a scam that does very little to protect
anyone but the lawyers...

"Judah" wrote in message
. ..
The whole legal system in the US is a scam that does very little to
protect
anyone but the lawyers...

http://grumman581.googlepages.com/la...oblem-solution

"Grumman-581" wrote in news:S%USg.677
:

http://grumman581.googlepages.com/la...oblem-solution

I like your plan. Let's execute it.

Mark A. Deal wrote:
I passed my checkride two months ago and now rent aircraft from my flight
school.

Can anybody give me the FL20 overview of the insurance I should be carrying
and why I'll need it?

Father of three, husband of one, self employed. :~)

Ask at the FBO, they have a vested interest in ensuring you are
properly insured. Some FBOs (usually clubs) have insurance that
names the renters. This insurance provides you with liability and often
includes damage wavers. Right now it seems about 25/75 with 75% of FBOs
not having such coverage. If not, you can purchase such insurance
"renter's" insurance through AOPA.
However, keep well clear of some discount FBOs that do not have any
insurance and rely on renters buying renters insurance. That leaves a
very large hole in coverage and often results in the FBO trying to come
after you but your policy not covering it (i.e. if you were not at
fault). Renter's insurance *only* covers situations where you are at
fault. This is also why you cannot "borrow" your friends plane because
if a wheel falls off his policy will not cover the accident because you
were not named, and yours will not cover because you were not at fault.
Owner's policies are very, very, very strict about being named on the
policy or covered as "open pilot". Without that, they will not pay for
anything under any situation. This differs from car insurance.

However, be careful of the majority of opinons out there that you
should buy a butt load of liability coverage. In truth, life has risks
and there is no way, no how you can ever assign all your risk to an
insurance company. You must made a cost/benefit decision yourself on
how much risk you want to take and how much you want to assign to the
insurance company. Most of us would agree that $2000/yr for $10,000
coverage is not worth it for example.

Finally, remember that in aviation insurance, if your medical is 1 day
out of currency, if you don't have a current BFR ( by one day), etc
there is no coverage. There is no "grace" in aviation insurance.

-Robert

On 2006-09-25, Robert M. Gary wrote:
fault). Renter's insurance *only* covers situations where you are at
fault. This is also why you cannot "borrow" your friends plane because
if a wheel falls off his policy will not cover the accident because you
were not named,

That depends on your friend's insurance: most policies have an "open
pilot" policy which states if you have the required level of experience,
you can fly the aircraft and be covered by the insurance.

--
Yes, the Reply-To email address is valid.
Oolite-Linux: an Elite tribute: http://oolite-linux.berlios.de