Flying a PA-28 140 from Maine to Georgia in a week end ...

I mean this in a positive way: threads and responses like these are
likely to make us all safer pilots.It's peer review at its finest.



On Dec 22, 11:28 pm, wrote:
"Barney Rubble" is absolutely correct...
"Bud" doesn't realize just how close he was to introducing himself and
his wife to the (lack of) glide capability of his new Cherokee 140.



Barney Rubble wrote:
Hmm, let's see, low time in make/model, just out of annual, a touch of get
homeitis combined with a long XC. No mode C due to transponder on the fritz,
inadvertent flight into IMC at night and subsequent scud running , departing
with door unlatched....
You do like to live on the edge don't you?
I guess you also landed in Reading with 3 galloons of useable fuel (50 gal
capacity/47 useable on a standard 1968 Cherokee 140), hmm 7GPH, it sounds
like you broke 91.151.

I'm glad you have a new plane and I'm happy for you, but this trip report
should set off some alarm bells about you flight planning and decision
making....

- Barney- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -

Absolutely.

'Tis much better to read about such things that to have to learn them
firsthand... like a good friend who had to put his new Cherokee 180
down in a soft plowed farm field a mere 1 mile short of the approach
end of our home runway due to fuel exhaustion... breaking off a main
gear & nose gear as they sunk into the soft dirt, and bashing his knee
into the lower instrument panel hard enough to crack his kneecap in the
very short rollout.

It was a "good" landing, however, as all occupants walked away with
relatively minor injuries and the airplane was repairable and is flying
once again. For some strange reason, he never allows his fuel to run
down lower than a one hour reserve anymore.

Tony wrote:
I mean this in a positive way: threads and responses like these are
likely to make us all safer pilots.It's peer review at its finest.



On Dec 22, 11:28 pm, wrote:
"Barney Rubble" is absolutely correct...
"Bud" doesn't realize just how close he was to introducing himself and
his wife to the (lack of) glide capability of his new Cherokee 140.



Barney Rubble wrote:
Hmm, let's see, low time in make/model, just out of annual, a touch of get
homeitis combined with a long XC. No mode C due to transponder on the fritz,
inadvertent flight into IMC at night and subsequent scud running , departing
with door unlatched....
You do like to live on the edge don't you?
I guess you also landed in Reading with 3 galloons of useable fuel (50 gal
capacity/47 useable on a standard 1968 Cherokee 140), hmm 7GPH, it sounds
like you broke 91.151.

I'm glad you have a new plane and I'm happy for you, but this trip report
should set off some alarm bells about you flight planning and decision
making....

- Barney- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -

For some strange reason, he never allows his fuel to run
down lower than a one hour reserve anymore.


Although this is a reasonable approach to fuel management, it's not the
most professional approach, nor does it allow the maximum utility of
one's aircraft. A competent pilot should, under certain circumstances,
land his plane with 30 minute fuel remaining, and do so safely without
anxiety.

It requires a complete confidence of fuel burn, which can only come
from many hours of operation of the exact same aircraft and proper
leaning procedure under all conditions and power setting. It requires
very detailed planning, because weather plays a significant role in
determining fuel reserve. It also requires a continuous re-evaluation
of weather and fuel situations in-flight, because weather can change
unexpectedly in a long flight that can affect what a safe fuel reserve
is. Last, it requires a clear alternative of what to do if something
unexpected happen at the destination runway: what if the runway you
intend to land become unavailable right when you approach the airport
with 30 minute fuel in the tank?

With all that, it is possible to plan a flight with 30 minute fuel
reserve. However it's just not possible to do this safely with a
unfamiliar aircraft.

Do your Cherokee a favor and get an autofuel STC for the low
compression engine. You'll love the fuel savings.

Bud_of_yours wrote:
How I flew my '68 Cherokee 140 to Savannah from Maine...
Or
"Wow! My butt is sore..."

Here is the set up.

I found a '68 Cherokee 140 that was a good fit for my wife and me.

On Dec 22, 2:19 pm, "Bud_of_yours" wrote:
How I flew my '68 Cherokee 140 to Savannah from Maine...

Bud,
Congratulations on the purchase of your first plane.
I assumed that the annual was done by a shop chosen by the previous
owner. Did you check on that shop reputation? The fact that the plane
was flown infrequently and the transponder did not work right after the
annual concerned me a bit.
Thank you for taking the time to write about your long cross country
flight. It was quite an eventful trip.
At first, I thought Barney's post was a bit harsh. On further
thought, I agreed with Tony that " threads and responses like these are
likely to make us all safer pilots.It's peer review at its finest".
If you have not already done so, I would suggest filing a NASA
report immediately.
I had recently discovered that you can signup to be on the mailing list
to receive "Callback" newsletters. The newsletters are also online at

http://asrs.arc.nasa.gov/callback_nf.htm

Hai Longworth

Aboutr fuel planning, flight endurance and fuel burn: I have a big
bunch of hours in my Mooney. It holds something like 33 gallons a side,
I almost always take off with full tanks. I would not dream of planning
a trip with 30 miutes reserve, and I know the airplane well. I f;ly
half the takeoff tank away, then most of the other tank, and when I
switch back to the take off tank, with 25% of the fuel still aboard,
I'm going to land for fuel, period, even if my RON is only 100 miles
farther along.

There are some obvious items careful readers will note: even with
careless leaning the bird will burn only 10 gph, so it has really long
legs. Carefully leaned at altitude I can get a bit more than 8 gph, so
range is rarely an issue. I might think differently if I was flying a
172, but probably not. Would I fly with a general aviation PIC who
plans on a 30 minute reserve at the planned termination of a flight?
I've never met anyone that good, thank you very much. My butt might not
be worth much, but it's the only one I have.




On Dec 24, 9:52 am, "Longworth" wrote:
On Dec 22, 2:19 pm, "Bud_of_yours" wrote:

How I flew my '68 Cherokee 140 to Savannah from Maine...Bud,
Congratulations on the purchase of your first plane.
I assumed that the annual was done by a shop chosen by the previous
owner. Did you check on that shop reputation? The fact that the plane
was flown infrequently and the transponder did not work right after the
annual concerned me a bit.
Thank you for taking the time to write about your long cross country
flight. It was quite an eventful trip.
At first, I thought Barney's post was a bit harsh. On further
thought, I agreed with Tony that " threads and responses like these are
likely to make us all safer pilots.It's peer review at its finest".
If you have not already done so, I would suggest filing a NASA
report immediately.
I had recently discovered that you can signup to be on the mailing list
to receive "Callback" newsletters. The newsletters are also online at

http://asrs.arc.nasa.gov/callback_nf.htm

Hai Longworth