GPS instead of turn and bank

Umm... OK.

So may I ask what was wrong with his other two paragraphs?

Dave



On Sun, 04 Feb 2007 19:09:26 -0500, Ron Natalie
wrote:

Mxsmanic wrote:

A GPS can only determine your track over the ground, which may not be
your heading.

This is the only thing that you said in your three whole stupid
ass paragraphs that was correct or the least bit relevent.

Unless you actually learn something about flying IFR in reality
rather than ****ing your life away in front of flight simulator
you'll never have an understanding of flight.

By the way, if you got your lard ass out of your chair and got
some excercise, you wouldn't overgross the training ships you
might be able to fly.

Dave wrote:
Umm... OK.

So may I ask what was wrong with his other two paragraphs?

They all repeat the same stupid irrelvent point.

In fact, the key of partial panel appraoch is simple.
If you aren't changing altitude and you aren't changing
heading (either by GPS or compass) then you are straight
and level. In fact, a GPS with a fast enough refresh rate
is as good (perhaps) better than a needle-ball gauge and
even your average portable is a whole lot better than the
whiskey compass.

Ron Natalie writes:

If you aren't changing altitude and you aren't changing
heading (either by GPS or compass) then you are straight
and level.

GPS doesn't know your heading. It only knows your ground track, which
isn't the same thing.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Dave,

So may I ask what was wrong with his other two paragraphs?


Download the free (I think) simulator for the 196, 296, 396 or 496
handheld GPS navigators from Garmin and try the instruments page.
You'll see what Ron means. In fact, IIRC the 296 is simulated in MSFS,
so maybe it is shown there.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Mxsmanic wrote:

Danny Deger writes:


I am thinking about buying a 1946 Taylorcraft that has NO gyros at all on
the panel. I really want at least a turn and bank so I want die if I loose
reference to the horizon for any reason. I have been told that the heading
information from a GPS is good enough to do the function of a turn and bank
and allow emergency operations without having a visual horizon reference.
Is this correct?


A GPS can only determine your track over the ground, which may not be
your heading.




True, but utterly irrelevant.





If there is no wind, both are the same, but if there is
any wind, your heading could be significantly different from your
ground track.


Completely and totally irrelevant.




GPS cannot determine your bank angle.


No need to.





In theory a GPS could determine
if you appear to be making a standard turn, if there is no wind.


The wind is irrelevant. Speed and rate of turn are all that is needed.


All the rest of the drivel snipped.

Newps writes:

True, but utterly irrelevant.

It's highly relevant. GPS can't be used as a bank indicator, nor can
it be used as a turn indicator. All it can do is measure changes in
your track, which it does by checking your position over the ground at
regular intervals. It doesn't know the attitude of the aircraft, and
it doesn't know if you are actually turning.

The wind is irrelevant. Speed and rate of turn are all that is needed.

A change in the wind will change your track as measured by the GPS.
The GPS does not know if this is a turn or just a wind change. And if
you turn, the GPS cannot distinguish that from a wind change, either.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Mxsmanic wrote:

Newps writes:


True, but utterly irrelevant.


It's highly relevant. GPS can't be used as a bank indicator, nor can
it be used as a turn indicator. All it can do is measure changes in
your track, which it does by checking your position over the ground at
regular intervals. It doesn't know the attitude of the aircraft, and
it doesn't know if you are actually turning.


All you care about is that you're actually turning. Or not turning.
The GPS does very well at that. Irrelevant the attitude of the
aircraft, the turn coordinator isn't telling you that anyway.



The wind is irrelevant. Speed and rate of turn are all that is needed.


A change in the wind will change your track as measured by the GPS.


Irrelevant.




The GPS does not know if this is a turn or just a wind change. And if
you turn, the GPS cannot distinguish that from a wind change, either.


Yawn.

Newps writes:

All you care about is that you're actually turning. Or not turning.
The GPS does very well at that.

No, it does not. The GPS knows only your ground track. Nothing else.
If you are flying straight and level, and the wind changes, your
ground track may show a turn, even though you haven't turned in the
air. If you turn as the wind changes, your ground track may show no
change, even though you are turning and banking in the wind.

Thus, a GPS alone cannot serve as a turn and bank indicator. QED.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Maybe, but you'd be better off with both.

But why would you loose reference to the horizon? Even a
T-Craft can flay away from clouds faster than the wind
blows.


"Danny Deger" wrote in message
...
|I am thinking about buying a 1946 Taylorcraft that has NO
gyros at all on
| the panel. I really want at least a turn and bank so I
want die if I loose
| reference to the horizon for any reason. I have been told
that the heading
| information from a GPS is good enough to do the function
of a turn and bank
| and allow emergency operations without having a visual
horizon reference.
| Is this correct?
|
| Danny Deger
|
|

I am thinking about buying a 1946 Taylorcraft that has NO gyros at all on
the panel. I really want at least a turn and bank so I want die if I loose
reference to the horizon for any reason. I have been told that the heading
information from a GPS is good enough to do the function of a turn and bank
and allow emergency operations without having a visual horizon reference.
Is this correct?

You can obtain the BEST answer to yoyur question by going up and
trying it out.

I've shot three or four simulated "ILS" approaches under the hood,
using only a Garmin 396 plus the aircraft's airspeed and altitude
indicators. The 396 has an imitation turn coordinator that is jerky
and has a delay but it works well enough to keep you right-side up and
get you to the airport.

I have NOT tried using it to recover from unexpected "unusual
attitudes," which is another matter.

vince norris