Boarding with engines running

Morgans schrieb:
"EridanMan" wrote

when park your plane.... duh?

Just for the uninformed, this is a troll,; a disturbed person that only
flies microsoft flight simulator, and is afraid to get in a real airplane.
He has problems with reality, and should be treated as a troll, and ignored.

EridanMan writes:

Advisable? No.
Safe? Depends on too many factors to tell say outright... Front
engined aircraft that boards over the trailing edge of the wing?
Probably safe (although I'd imagine getting some doors open under even
an idle prop-stream would be a pain/might risk damage to the door...
light aircraft doors tend to be very flimsy) Twin which boards over
the wing? Not a chance... WAY to many other variables (how bright is
it (how visible is the prop disc), how much idle blast does the prop
throw?
Done anyways? Sure.

The scenario I have in mind is sitting waiting for a passenger to get on or
off, or helping a passenger get on or off. It's mainly just to have a more
realistic simulation. The aircraft I use in the sim is usually a Baron 58; if
I fly it online (VATSIM), it's important that stops at airports be of
realistic length (of the length that they would be if you stopped for some
specific purpose in real life, such as picking someone up or dropping someone
off).

Thus, I wanted to know if it's possible/safe/practical to sit with the engines
running while someone gets into or out of the plane, much as one would do with
a car when picking someone up. Maybe that is too farfetched for an aviation
context. I suppose the passenger would have to be able to get to the aircraft
on his own, and I don't know how tough that would be. And if the pilot had to
help him board or disembark, I assume it would be way too risky to leave the
aircraft running while he left his seat and got out of the plane.

Kinda a nonsensical question, how long until the next stiff wind
blows?

Not for me, as I don't have direct experience with this. I don't know how
easily small aircraft can be moved by the wind.

In all honesty, most chalks will
probably do no better than the wheel brakes alone at protecting from a
stiff gust... t takes quite a bit of wind to overcome the static
friction of the wheels. If the wind is strong enough to overpower a
brake, a chalk probably won't do much better- what you'll need is good
heavy chains, or better yet, a hangar.

A hangar would be great, but unfortunately the simulator doesn't support that
in most cases.

The flip-side is that in general, if your paying the MX bills, its
really not a good idea to leave the brake engaged, this is simply a
wear issue (Its better to store a hydrolic system unpressurized then
pressurized, If you have the choice). Wheel chalks are slightly more
reliable, and much cheaper, then a parking break, but no
"safer" (better at keeping an aircraft stationary)

OK.

when park your plane.... duh?

I meant, do pilots keep a set of chocks in the aircraft and position the
chocks themselves, or is there a lineman or someone who does this, or what?
With large airliners there are crews who handle all of this, but I don't know
how it is done with tiny airplanes.

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The scenario I have in mind is sitting waiting for a passenger to get on or
off, or helping a passenger get on or off. It's mainly just to have a more
realistic simulation. The aircraft I use in the sim is usually a Baron 58; if

I just don't understand it, why do you need to go to such great
lengths in a simulator? Even in real life its the flying part that is
the most fun, the challenge to level off precisely and accurately with
the minimum of fuss, the thrill of taking off and landing within 100
ft of the numbers, handling stiff X-winds, using only pilotage to get
to a small airstrip etc. Of course taxing is fun too but its only
because of what comes after it or what came before it.

I fly it online (VATSIM), it's important that stops at airports be of
realistic length (of the length that they would be if you stopped for some
specific purpose in real life, such as picking someone up or dropping someone
off).

If I were to fly in a simulator the only thing I would be doing would
be to fly, fly, fly and never do the mundane things like taxing and
especially never do something as silly as simulating waiting for a
passenger. I don't see why you do not go up with a flight instructor
for an hour or so if you are so interested in the real life aspects of
flying. Its like the saying that a picture is worth a thousand words,
similarly one real flight can be worth a thousand simulator flights.
It would save you a heck of a lot of time not having to ask these
questions and time is money.

Little Endian schrieb:


I just don't understand it, why do you need to go to such great
lengths in a simulator?


Because we, the simmers, like to simulate RL as closely as possible,
that´s the reason why we simulate RL.

A friend of mine, who is a RL pilot, too, goes the other way; he
does things in the sim he wouldn´t think of doing in RL, which is
not the way I use MSFS. Therefore, I only fly with him in RL, not in the
sim, because only RL comes close to my experience in the sim.

Yes, I know, difficult to explain ...


:-) Andreas

I just don't understand it, why do you need to go to such great
lengths in a simulator?


Because we, the simmers, like to simulate RL as closely as possible,
that´s the reason why we simulate RL.

A friend of mine, who is a RL pilot, too, goes the other way; he
does things in the sim he wouldn´t think of doing in RL, which is
not the way I use MSFS. Therefore, I only fly with him in RL, not in the
sim, because only RL comes close to my experience in the sim.

Yes, I know, difficult to explain ...


He flew the sim Pitts through WHERE???????

Oh! No! Not the Baltimore Harbour Tunnell!!!!!

Peter
(Sorry, couldn't resist... :-))))

"Andreas Tschoeke" wrote in message ...
: Little Endian schrieb:
:
:
: I just don't understand it, why do you need to go to such great
: lengths in a simulator?
:
:
: Because we, the simmers, like to simulate RL as closely as possible,
: that´s the reason why we simulate RL.
:
: A friend of mine, who is a RL pilot, too, goes the other way; he
: does things in the sim he wouldn´t think of doing in RL, which is
: not the way I use MSFS. Therefore, I only fly with him in RL, not in the
: sim, because only RL comes close to my experience in the sim.
:
: Yes, I know, difficult to explain ...
:
:
::-) Andreas
:
:

You folks need to go off somewhere else and simulate RAP also...

Andreas Tschoeke writes:

A friend of mine, who is a RL pilot, too, goes the other way; he
does things in the sim he wouldn´t think of doing in RL, which is
not the way I use MSFS. Therefore, I only fly with him in RL, not in the
sim, because only RL comes close to my experience in the sim.

What sorts of things does he do in the sim?

I know that sims come in handy for trying all the things that would be too
dangerous or expensive in real life.

I took off from the tiny airport in Sedona a few days ago in a lightly loaded
747-400, just to see if it was possible (it is). That experiment would be
completely out of the question in real life, of course, even if you could tow
a 747-400 up onto the mesa to reach the airport. Granted, one could calculate
whether or not this would be possible by looking at the numbers, but it was
easier to just try it in a sim.

FWIW, I loaded 40,000 lbs of fuel and a few dozen of my closest friends, stood
on the brakes until I had take-off thrust, and took off without any
difficulty. With a full load the story would have been different.

--
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Little Endian writes:

I just don't understand it, why do you need to go to such great
lengths in a simulator?

When flying online, it's important to have realistic delays for various
operations. Landing and then asking to taxi back out to the active thirty
seconds later isn't very realistic if you are supposedly letting off
passengers, having the cabin serviced, taking on new passengers, moving
luggage, and so on.

Knowing what operations must be performed in real life helps you simulate the
delay correctly.

The whole idea of simulation is to simulate real life. The only parts you
leave out are the ones that would ruin the advantage of simulation, such as
driving to and from the airport, dropping hundreds or thousands of dollars on
a flight, being stuck far from home waiting for weather to improve, and so on.

Even in real life its the flying part that is
the most fun, the challenge to level off precisely and accurately with
the minimum of fuss, the thrill of taking off and landing within 100
ft of the numbers, handling stiff X-winds, using only pilotage to get
to a small airstrip etc. Of course taxing is fun too but its only
because of what comes after it or what came before it.

Agreed. But sometimes peripheral activities enhance the illusion of reality.

Most simmers draw the line at anything that happens outside the aircraft, such
as going to and from the airport, filling out reports, and so on. A few go a
bit further and have complete passenger and cargo manifests and flight
schedules to respect and so on. It's a personal choice. However, everyone is
expected to do all the in-cockpit stuff, from startup to shutdown, and
obviously including things like taxiing.

When flying offline, one tends to cut out some parts. When flying online,
everything is done by the book, so that everyone has a more realistic
experience. You don't just pop into existence at the airport lined up for
take-off, for example, because you have to taxi out from the gate or ramp.

If I were to fly in a simulator the only thing I would be doing would
be to fly, fly, fly and never do the mundane things like taxing and
especially never do something as silly as simulating waiting for a
passenger.

That's your choice.

Some people take it further, and consider even flying mundane. They are the
ones who like the combat games and the "missions" of MSFS. Obviously, they
usually aren't seriously interested in aviation if they don't like flying for
its own sake.

Incidentally, if you don't like the mundane things, that's all the more reason
to fly a simulator, where you can skip all the boring stuff.

I don't see why you do not go up with a flight instructor
for an hour or so if you are so interested in the real life aspects of
flying.

In real life, you can't avoid the boring parts and just keep the interesting
parts. You blow several hours of your time in boring activity for a few
minutes in the air, and it costs a fortune. That's not very cost-effective
compared to simulation.

Its like the saying that a picture is worth a thousand words,
similarly one real flight can be worth a thousand simulator flights.

Or it can be a waste of time.

It would save you a heck of a lot of time not having to ask these
questions and time is money.

I have more time than money.

--
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Mxsmanic wrote:

snip


Incidentally, if you don't like the mundane things, that's all the more reason
to fly a simulator, where you can skip all the boring stuff.


It seems to me, that by flying a simulator only, and swearing away REAL
flight and REAL life, you are missing out on all of REAL life.


In real life, you can't avoid the boring parts and just keep the interesting
parts. You blow several hours of your time in boring activity for a few
minutes in the air, and it costs a fortune. That's not very cost-effective
compared to simulation.

I'll take my "boring", expensive flights in my grumman cheetah over a
cheaper "more exciting" flight in an extra 300 or MU2 on MSFS ANY day...
I would bet most people feel the same. How can you compare real life
to MSFS? Boring parts of flying a REAL plane? Now I have heard everything.




Its like the saying that a picture is worth a thousand words,
similarly one real flight can be worth a thousand simulator flights.


Or it can be a waste of time.

Sitting in front of a computer for hours on end pretending to be flying
with no plans to ever fly a real plane sounds like a perfect definition
of a waste of time...



I have more time than money

Obviously you have a lot of time on your hands. I know lots of people
who have little money who fly. I think there is more to it than that.

Incidentally, if you don't like the mundane things, that's all the more reason
to fly a simulator, where you can skip all the boring stuff.

Actually it depends on what you consider to be "boring stuff". I
consider the entire act of flying in a sim to be boring, the reason
being that it cannot even qualify as a challenging video game. IMO,
the reason for flying in real life is that it is a challenge and
challenges are fun. It is a challenge not because flying is hard, (it
isn't any harder than flying a sim) but because there is a penalty,
sometimes severe and always very real, for almost every mistake you
make. In real life my pulse goes up every time I have to go around
with full flaps with trees looming at the end of the runway but on a
sim I can do the same even while sipping beer. The reason is that the
stakes are different and a sim can never simulate the most important
aspect of real life which is reality. Ironically this very fact also
makes a sim so valuable for certain aspects of training. But would I
swap my racing pulse for the safety and comfort of my simulator?
Never!
Have you ever seen trapeze artists perform without a safety net? It
costs more to watch them perform without safety nets. Why? Because
people pay more when the stakes are real. Similarly it costs more to
fly in real life than in a simulator because the stakes are real.

In real life, you can't avoid the boring parts and just keep the interesting
parts. You blow several hours of your time in boring activity for a few
minutes in the air, and it costs a fortune. That's not very cost-effective
compared to simulation.

Depends on what you mean by cost-effective. I would not trade my 100+
hrs in the air for anything. There is no question that sims are
amazing and can be used as training aids very effectively but they
cannot make me sweat or feel nervous or make my pulse race.. which is
why I don't take them seriously except to marvel at the progress
technology has made.