Trailer tow vehicle fuel pumps

Bob Kuykendall wrote:


Electric Fuel Pump failure grumbling schtuff snipped...

A) Everything is DIY for the resourceful and motivated.
True enough, but Mr. Time usually has his say! (This from a
self-described reasonably resourceful and motivated sort [aka 'cheap
*******'].)
- - - - - -


B) All of the cars for which I've replaced the in-tank pump allowed
access through a panel in the trunk or under the cargo deck. None so
far have required dropping the tank.
You haven't done a 1987 Ford Mustang LX, then...or lots of other Fords
which don't have as one of Ford's better ideas (remember that ad
campaign?) thru-trunk gastank/in-tank-fuel-pump access. One of many
battles accountants and/or bad management won over engineering. Or
(bowing to Occam) maybe simply bad engineering...

As an engineer and original owner of a (still running and
retired-to-[glider/utility/critter]-towing) 1972 Ford Maverick with
bolt-on mechanical fuel pump, I feel qualified expressing contemptuous
opinions on this particular topic!
- - - - - -

D) In my experience, failure of fuel pump relays is far more common
than failure of the pump. Usually they can be fixed by peeling them
open and resoldering the crack-prone joints where the heavy relay
frame meets the circuit board.

That hasn't been my experience, but (thankfully) my data sample can
still be counted on one hand. My solution has been to buy replacement
pumps from Autozone (kids, keep your receipts!) - they come with a
lifetime warranty (as do their gas struts). Clearly these fine folks
don't know who they're dealing with!

Bob - feeling ornery today - W.

On Mar 2, 6:51 pm, Ray Lovinggood
wrote:
Bill,

One way to 'solve' the noisy fuel pump is to drive
a diesel pickup truck. Damn diesel engines are so
noisy, even at idle, they can drown out the sound of
a few extra fuel pumps, sirens, air horns, bickering
neighbors, howling dogs and screaming babies...

(I'm talking Ford, Chevy, Dodge (Cummins) diesels.
The Mercedes and Volkswagon diesels available in America
are quite civilized.)

Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA

Actually Ray,

The new diesel pickup engines are required to meet EPA noise and
emmission standards and you'll find new Dodge Cummins are very quiet.
If you hear one, you will be surprised. I suspect the Ford and
Chevy's are as well because everyone has to meet the new (2005) fed
regs. The Dodge lift pumps on 2nd gen. Cummins powered trucks are
known to fail around 30k miles, with some on the 3rd gen as well, but
hey, that's life. I've had two Dodge Cummins pickups in the past 4
years, never had anything fail, ever, on either vehicle, same with my
two Volvo station wagons. Buy quality and it pays in the long run.

Jim

Bill Daniels wrote:
Daimler/Chysler has paid for 4 of my pumps.
Even though they were replaced at no charge, I've replaced mine with a heavy
duty off-road racing unit that I can easily change on the roadside in about
ten minutes

Oh, oh! I may have to pay attention here.

Daimler-Chrysler have paid for two sender units for me. Sounds like I
may have got two new pumps as well.

What were they in, Bill? ...and what's your replacement unit?

GC

Bill


"Bob Kuykendall" wrote in message
oups.com...
These electric pumps, according to an informal survey of friends and
acquaintances, fail with alarming frequency - usually within ~50K miles
and
each 50K thereafter.
That's counter to my personal experience. I've done four fuel pumps
for my Volvo tow vehicles; none of them let go prior to the 200,000
mile mark. All of the replacements outlasted the vehicles.

Once you are on the roadside, you will find that no matter how
good you may be at fixing cars, there is nothing you can do but call a
tow
truck since pump replacement requires a high bay hoist where the gas tank
can be removed. It just isn't a DIY job.
Disagree:

A) Everything is DIY for the resourceful and motivated.

B) All of the cars for which I've replaced the in-tank pump allowed
access through a panel in the trunk or under the cargo deck. None so
far have required dropping the tank.

C) For many cars with Bosch K-Jetronic, LH-Jetronic, and similar
systems, there are actually two pumps: an in-tank centrifugal pump and
an external constant-displacement pump. The in-tank pump just delivers
fuel to the main pump, and is critical only at 1/4 tank fuel level and
below. The usual sign of a failed or failing in-tank pump is poor
running below 1/4 tank, and whining noises from the main pump.

D) In my experience, failure of fuel pump relays is far more common
than failure of the pump. Usually they can be fixed by peeling them
open and resoldering the crack-prone joints where the heavy relay
frame meets the circuit board.

wrote in message
oups.com...
On Mar 2, 6:51 pm, Ray Lovinggood
wrote:
Bill,

One way to 'solve' the noisy fuel pump is to drive
a diesel pickup truck. Damn diesel engines are so
noisy, even at idle, they can drown out the sound of
a few extra fuel pumps, sirens, air horns, bickering
neighbors, howling dogs and screaming babies...

(I'm talking Ford, Chevy, Dodge (Cummins) diesels.
The Mercedes and Volkswagon diesels available in America
are quite civilized.)

Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA

Actually Ray,

The new diesel pickup engines are required to meet EPA noise and
emmission standards and you'll find new Dodge Cummins are very quiet.
If you hear one, you will be surprised. I suspect the Ford and
Chevy's are as well because everyone has to meet the new (2005) fed
regs. The Dodge lift pumps on 2nd gen. Cummins powered trucks are
known to fail around 30k miles, with some on the 3rd gen as well, but
hey, that's life. I've had two Dodge Cummins pickups in the past 4
years, never had anything fail, ever, on either vehicle, same with my
two Volvo station wagons. Buy quality and it pays in the long run.

Jim


Two vehicles in four years would not seem qualify one to assess "the long
run".

A Jeep Grand Cherokee. However, I've heard of a number of other makes with
the same problem - for example, BMW's. Believe me, a dead fuel pump raises
"PITA" to a whole new level.

It is especially galling to me that a vehicle like a Jeep which is more than
capable of getting you deep into the back country can strand you there with
a dead fuel pump. Needless to say, Jeep entheusiasts have given D-C hell
about this. Unfortunately, I can't say for sure is has had any effect.

Jeepers are still modifying their vehicles with aftermarket pumps. My
replacement is a MSD in-line, Jegs catalog number 121-2225 which is noiser
than I would like. There are other pumps advertized as "quiet" but I can't
say how quiet. Mounting the pump in rubber helps a lot.

A fuel pump is a critical component with no backup or "limp-home"
capability. They should be as bullet proof as anything else in the vehicle.
Especially so if the pump can't be repaired by a knowledable owner on the
roadside.

Carburated engines can be jury-rigged to run after a fashion with a one
gallon fuel can on the roof gravity feeding fuel to the carburator. With
fuel injection needing 45 psi or more, you're SOL.

As for Ford reliability, my mechanic says the old saw 'Fix Or Repair Daily'
isn't true. He says FORD is really DROF spelled backwards which stands for
"Driver Returns On Foot".

Bill Daniels


"Graeme Cant" gcantinter@tnodedotnet wrote in message
...
Bill Daniels wrote:
Daimler/Chysler has paid for 4 of my pumps. Even though they were
replaced at no charge, I've replaced mine with a heavy duty off-road
racing unit that I can easily change on the roadside in about ten minutes

Oh, oh! I may have to pay attention here.

Daimler-Chrysler have paid for two sender units for me. Sounds like I may
have got two new pumps as well.

What were they in, Bill? ...and what's your replacement unit?

GC

Bill


"Bob Kuykendall" wrote in message
oups.com...
These electric pumps, according to an informal survey of friends and
acquaintances, fail with alarming frequency - usually within ~50K miles
and
each 50K thereafter.
That's counter to my personal experience. I've done four fuel pumps
for my Volvo tow vehicles; none of them let go prior to the 200,000
mile mark. All of the replacements outlasted the vehicles.

Once you are on the roadside, you will find that no matter how
good you may be at fixing cars, there is nothing you can do but call a
tow
truck since pump replacement requires a high bay hoist where the gas
tank
can be removed. It just isn't a DIY job.
Disagree:

A) Everything is DIY for the resourceful and motivated.

B) All of the cars for which I've replaced the in-tank pump allowed
access through a panel in the trunk or under the cargo deck. None so
far have required dropping the tank.

C) For many cars with Bosch K-Jetronic, LH-Jetronic, and similar
systems, there are actually two pumps: an in-tank centrifugal pump and
an external constant-displacement pump. The in-tank pump just delivers
fuel to the main pump, and is critical only at 1/4 tank fuel level and
below. The usual sign of a failed or failing in-tank pump is poor
running below 1/4 tank, and whining noises from the main pump.

D) In my experience, failure of fuel pump relays is far more common
than failure of the pump. Usually they can be fixed by peeling them
open and resoldering the crack-prone joints where the heavy relay
frame meets the circuit board.

On Mar 4, 5:40 am, "Michael McNulty"
wrote:
wrote in message

oups.com...

On Mar 2, 6:51 pm, Ray Lovinggood
wrote:
Bill,

One way to 'solve' the noisy fuel pump is to drive
a diesel pickup truck. Damn diesel engines are so
noisy, even at idle, they can drown out the sound of
a few extra fuel pumps, sirens, air horns, bickering
neighbors, howling dogs and screaming babies...

(I'm talking Ford, Chevy, Dodge (Cummins) diesels.
The Mercedes and Volkswagon diesels available in America
are quite civilized.)

Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA

Actually Ray,

The new diesel pickup engines are required to meet EPA noise and
emmission standards and you'll find new Dodge Cummins are very quiet.
If you hear one, you will be surprised. I suspect the Ford and
Chevy's are as well because everyone has to meet the new (2005) fed
regs. The Dodge lift pumps on 2nd gen. Cummins powered trucks are
known to fail around 30k miles, with some on the 3rd gen as well, but
hey, that's life. I've had two Dodge Cummins pickups in the past 4
years, never had anything fail, ever, on either vehicle, same with my
two Volvo station wagons. Buy quality and it pays in the long run.

Jim

Two vehicles in four years would not seem qualify one to assess "the long
run".


I trade them in when the tires wear down, hate to buy a full set of
tires for a dually! The Volvos I keep, last one was 8 years. I suppose
results may vary.

Jim