Oral exam place and questions

On Apr 9, 5:54 pm, Ron Natalie wrote:
Mxsmanic wrote:
Where does this exam take place? Is it in a classroom, or in a testing
center, or is it actually in the aircraft?

It's usually done at the point of the checkride, inside the FBO in some
convenient place where you go over the paperwork and then outside in the
vicinity of the aircraft, typically the candidate being asked questions
while demonstrating the checkride.



When you are asked math-type questions, are you expected to answer with just a
ballpark figure or an exact answer? In the latter case, can you use a
calculator, or pencil and paper, or must you do it in your head?

You're not typically asked math-type questions. Generally questions are
asked about aircraft systems and your preflight planning is examined.
In flight, you might be asked to compute some things as part of your
normal cross country navigation. Accuracy to what you can get on the
whizwheel is accceptable.

If I'm asked how long it will take to go 84 nm at 120 kts, I know that it's
about 40 minutes, but if an exact answer is required I don't see how I could
practically provide that without a calculator.

Whizwheels were the classic, calculators are acceptable.

Traditionally the students were told what calculations to do ahead of
time and would arrive with a flight plan, W&B, performance, balanced
field, etc asked for by the DE the night before the ride. However, the
FSDO is now asking the examiners to throw those out and make the
student do another one right there to ensure the CFI isn't doing it
for them. Usually the DE will ask the student to plan some sort of
cross country (complete with runway requirements, performance, etc),
then go get coffee and 1/2 watch the process but then go over the
results. A great DE sets aside the entire day for the checkride to
avoid rushing the student, although 1/2 a day is probably the most
common.

-Robert, CFII

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

I've been reading about oral exams for a private pilot license (in the
U.S.), and two questions have come to mind.

Where does this exam take place?

What does it matter to you? You'll never fly.


Bertie

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Luke Skywalker writes:

In your hypothetical if I gave you a question like the one you possed
and you gave me the "ball park" answer my next question "might" be,
"if you wanted a more precise one how would you figure it out?" and
then that would go to the "computing" device...I would probably feel
it necessary (grin) to show you how to use an E6B if all you have is
an electronic one (kind of a whiz bang thing)...

I don't think that would be a problem. The ASA E6-B I bought is
inexpensively made, though, and it's really hard to turn the wheels;
it would be a pain to actually have to fumble with it in a cockpit.


How would you know, moron? You've never been in a cockpit.



A nice Pickett steel or bamboo circular slide rule would be ideal--one
of the rare situations in which a slide rule is probably superior to a
calculator (no electricity, extremely fast and easy to use, more than
accurate enough for its purpose, good at simplifying specific
problems). Alas! Nobody seems to make slide rules any more. I saw a
few other circular slide rules at the pilot store, but they all looked
like the same thing in different materials, although I didn't look
that closely.

I"ve done "part" of the oral in and around an airplane before...but I
dont like to. The environment is not controlled etc... It usually
doesnt do what I am trying to do and that is put the applicant at
"ease"...

The only time I'm at ease during an exam is if I don't care if I pass.

Nobody else cares, that's for sure.



Bertie

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

TheSmokingGnu writes:

120 kts is 2 nm/min (120/60), so the precise answer is 42 minutes
(84/2).

I had not thought of that, although I suppose I would with some
reflection. I'm sure I would not during an exam.


Not enough fingers, eh genius?


bertie

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Apr 9, 5:54 pm, Ron Natalie wrote:
Mxsmanic wrote:
Where does this exam take place? Is it in a classroom, or in a
testing
center, or is it actually in the aircraft?

It's usually done at the point of the checkride, inside the FBO in some
convenient place where you go over the paperwork and then outside in the
vicinity of the aircraft, typically the candidate being asked questions
while demonstrating the checkride.



When you are asked math-type questions, are you expected to answer
with just a
ballpark figure or an exact answer? In the latter case, can you use a
calculator, or pencil and paper, or must you do it in your head?

You're not typically asked math-type questions. Generally questions are
asked about aircraft systems and your preflight planning is examined.
In flight, you might be asked to compute some things as part of your
normal cross country navigation. Accuracy to what you can get on the
whizwheel is accceptable.

If I'm asked how long it will take to go 84 nm at 120 kts, I know that
it's
about 40 minutes, but if an exact answer is required I don't see how I
could
practically provide that without a calculator.

Whizwheels were the classic, calculators are acceptable.

Traditionally the students were told what calculations to do ahead of
time and would arrive with a flight plan, W&B, performance, balanced
field, etc asked for by the DE the night before the ride. However, the
FSDO is now asking the examiners to throw those out and make the
student do another one right there to ensure the CFI isn't doing it
for them. Usually the DE will ask the student to plan some sort of
cross country (complete with runway requirements, performance, etc),
then go get coffee and 1/2 watch the process but then go over the
results. A great DE sets aside the entire day for the checkride to
avoid rushing the student, although 1/2 a day is probably the most
common.

-Robert, CFII

I had only ever heard of the 1/2 day scheduling--so now I'm curious:
Does a geate DE actually use the entire day, or just have it available?

Peter

On Apr 10, 6:50 am, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Mxsmanic wrote :

Luke Skywalker writes:

In your hypothetical if I gave you a question like the one you possed
and you gave me the "ball park" answer my next question "might" be,
"if you wanted a more precise one how would you figure it out?" and
then that would go to the "computing" device...I would probably feel
it necessary (grin) to show you how to use an E6B if all you have is
an electronic one (kind of a whiz bang thing)...

I don't think that would be a problem. The ASA E6-B I bought is
inexpensively made, though, and it's really hard to turn the wheels;
it would be a pain to actually have to fumble with it in a cockpit.

How would you know, moron? You've never been in a cockpit.







A nice Pickett steel or bamboo circular slide rule would be ideal--one
of the rare situations in which a slide rule is probably superior to a
calculator (no electricity, extremely fast and easy to use, more than
accurate enough for its purpose, good at simplifying specific
problems). Alas! Nobody seems to make slide rules any more. I saw a
few other circular slide rules at the pilot store, but they all looked
like the same thing in different materials, although I didn't look
that closely.

I"ve done "part" of the oral in and around an airplane before...but I
dont like to. The environment is not controlled etc... It usually
doesnt do what I am trying to do and that is put the applicant at
"ease"...

The only time I'm at ease during an exam is if I don't care if I pass.

Nobody else cares, that's for sure.

Bertie- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

LOL. Thats what I tell people everytime I sign off the white paper...

LOL

Robert

If I'm asked how long it will take to go 84 nm at 120 kts, I know that it's
about 40 minutes, but if an exact answer is required I don't see how I
could practically provide that without a calculator.

Whizwheels were the classic, calculators are acceptable.

I learned to fly in France in the mid-80's, and all student pilots were taught
to do these calculations mentally, using the "facteur de base" = 60/TAS. It
takes practice but works really well.

"Luke Skywalker" wrote in
ups.com:

On Apr 10, 6:50 am, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Mxsmanic wrote
:

Luke Skywalker writes:

In your hypothetical if I gave you a question like the one you
possed and you gave me the "ball park" answer my next question
"might" be, "if you wanted a more precise one how would you figure
it out?" and then that would go to the "computing" device...I
would probably feel it necessary (grin) to show you how to use an
E6B if all you have is an electronic one (kind of a whiz bang
thing)...

I don't think that would be a problem. The ASA E6-B I bought is
inexpensively made, though, and it's really hard to turn the
wheels; it would be a pain to actually have to fumble with it in a
cockpit.

How would you know, moron? You've never been in a cockpit.







A nice Pickett steel or bamboo circular slide rule would be
ideal--one of the rare situations in which a slide rule is probably
superior to a calculator (no electricity, extremely fast and easy
to use, more than accurate enough for its purpose, good at
simplifying specific problems). Alas! Nobody seems to make slide
rules any more. I saw a few other circular slide rules at the
pilot store, but they all looked like the same thing in different
materials, although I didn't look that closely.

I"ve done "part" of the oral in and around an airplane
before...but I dont like to. The environment is not controlled
etc... It usually doesnt do what I am trying to do and that is
put the applicant at "ease"...

The only time I'm at ease during an exam is if I don't care if I
pass.

Nobody else cares, that's for sure.

Bertie- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

LOL. Thats what I tell people everytime I sign off the white paper...


Kay...


Berti e

On Apr 10, 6:47 am, "Peter Dohm" wrote:
"Robert M. Gary" wrote in ooglegroups.com...



On Apr 9, 5:54 pm, Ron Natalie wrote:
Mxsmanic wrote:
Where does this exam take place? Is it in a classroom, or in a
testing
center, or is it actually in the aircraft?

It's usually done at the point of the checkride, inside the FBO in some
convenient place where you go over the paperwork and then outside in the
vicinity of the aircraft, typically the candidate being asked questions
while demonstrating the checkride.

When you are asked math-type questions, are you expected to answer
with just a
ballpark figure or an exact answer? In the latter case, can you use a
calculator, or pencil and paper, or must you do it in your head?

You're not typically asked math-type questions. Generally questions are
asked about aircraft systems and your preflight planning is examined.
In flight, you might be asked to compute some things as part of your
normal cross country navigation. Accuracy to what you can get on the
whizwheel is accceptable.

If I'm asked how long it will take to go 84 nm at 120 kts, I know that
it's
about 40 minutes, but if an exact answer is required I don't see how I
could
practically provide that without a calculator.

Whizwheels were the classic, calculators are acceptable.

Traditionally the students were told what calculations to do ahead of
time and would arrive with a flight plan, W&B, performance, balanced
field, etc asked for by the DE the night before the ride. However, the
FSDO is now asking the examiners to throw those out and make the
student do another one right there to ensure the CFI isn't doing it
for them. Usually the DE will ask the student to plan some sort of
cross country (complete with runway requirements, performance, etc),
then go get coffee and 1/2 watch the process but then go over the
results. A great DE sets aside the entire day for the checkride to
avoid rushing the student, although 1/2 a day is probably the most
common.

-Robert, CFII

I had only ever heard of the 1/2 day scheduling--so now I'm curious:
Does a geate DE actually use the entire day, or just have it available?

Peter- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

As a CFI I appreciate it when a DE only does one checkride per day
because it puts less time pressure on the student. Sometimes things
don't work out right and extra time is needed. If the checkride is at
9am and the DE has another at noon, the DE will be more pressured.
About 1/2 the DEs will only schedule one per day because of this.
However, at $400 a pop, I can see why someone would want to do more
than 1 per day. Around here the DEs are scheduled pretty far out. Many
schedule 40 days out (which is REALLY hard as a CFI to ensure the
student "peaks" at the right time, accounting for illness,
maintenance, etc). Other DEs will only work out of certain airports
(simply because they dont' want to drive far from their house). We
have a great bunch of DEs out here (don't get me wrong) but the more
flexibility they give the student, the easier it is for me to make the
stars align at the right time.

-Robert

Robert M. Gary wrote:


Traditionally the students were told what calculations to do ahead of
time and would arrive with a flight plan, W&B, performance, balanced
field, etc asked for by the DE the night before the ride.

Really? I don't remember that tradition. I took my ride in '88 and at
that time, the DE would (maybe) tell you where the pseudo cross country was
going to go. On the day of the examination, you were required to do the
flight plan right there in front of the DE. As I recall, the PTS had a
requrement that the flight plan must be completed in 30 min. Later on (in
the rule overhaul of '96, IIRC), they dropped the 30 min. time limit.

However, the
FSDO is now asking the examiners to throw those out and make the
student do another one right there to ensure the CFI isn't doing it
for them.

That's probably not a bad idea. More likely than a CFI doing the plan for
the student, is the student just having a computer do the whole thing for him
in advance.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

--
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