OT a bit - fly to the moon or Mars?

On May 7, 1:44 pm, "ManhattanMan" wrote:
Why?

I'm totally in favor of manned exploration of our corner of the universe,
that has practical, obtainable benefits and goals, but it just seems the
efforts might better directed within, keeping what we have liveable, rather
than a Star Trek script. If the robots turn up something absolutely
extraordinary, that could change.

Just MHO, probably short sighted on my part, I also thought the hula hoop
was a dumb idea. I can understand the "climb the mountain because it's
there" mentality up to a point, but I'd sure like a better reason in this
case than "just because"....


The same could be said about most of the aviation we participate in.
Few of us can justify the expense in terms of cost vs benefit. I
believe when we stop reaching out, for new experiences, we begin to
die. I know that my interest in avaition can be traced directly to the
Mercury, Gemini and Apollo flights of the 60's. I believe that it's no
coincidence that GA is declining today. We need something to inspire a
new generation.
--
Gene Seibel
Hangar 131 - http://pad39a.com/gene/plane.html
Because I fly, I envy no one.

"Gene Seibel" wrote in message
oups.com...
On May 7, 1:44 pm, "ManhattanMan" wrote:
Why?

I'm totally in favor of manned exploration of our corner of the
universe,
that has practical, obtainable benefits and goals, but it just seems the
efforts might better directed within, keeping what we have liveable,
rather
than a Star Trek script. If the robots turn up something absolutely
extraordinary, that could change.

Just MHO, probably short sighted on my part, I also thought the hula
hoop
was a dumb idea. I can understand the "climb the mountain because it's
there" mentality up to a point, but I'd sure like a better reason in
this
case than "just because"....


The same could be said about most of the aviation we participate in.
Few of us can justify the expense in terms of cost vs benefit. I
believe when we stop reaching out, for new experiences, we begin to
die. I know that my interest in avaition can be traced directly to the
Mercury, Gemini and Apollo flights of the 60's. I believe that it's no
coincidence that GA is declining today. We need something to inspire a
new generation.
--
Gene Seibel
Hangar 131 - http://pad39a.com/gene/plane.html
Because I fly, I envy no one.



When we stop reaching out for new experiences, there can be no further
justification for our existance.

Peter

When we stop reaching out for new experiences, there can be no further
justification for our existance.

Peter

Amen

Mars differs from the Moon in that it is actually or could be made to
be permanently habitable by a large number of humans. Mars has plenty
of its own natural energy sources, such as solar and geothermal heat,
making it fine as a "lifeboat" for our own planet (although hopefully
it won't come to that). A Mars colony could without a doubt be self-
sufficient. One of my firends from graduate school is proving that
right now on Devon Island, Canada (which has roughly the same climate
as Mars: see www.marsonearth.org). As for sending industrial products
back to Earth, it's much easier and cheaper to fly from Mars to Earth
than it is the other way around. There's no reason to think that a
Mars colony could be self sufficient almost immediately and then
(after some long time) eventually profitable.

ZikZak wrote:
right now on Devon Island, Canada (which has roughly the same climate
as Mars: see www.marsonearth.org).

""No place on Earth is truly like Mars. Although Mars can be characterized
at present as a cold desert, not even the polar deserts of the Earth achieve
the extremes in minimum temperature, dryness, low atmospheric pressure and
harsh radiation conditions that the surface of Mars currently experiences.
Many aspects of the geologic and potential biologic evolution of Mars are
likely to have been different or remain uncertain enough that any comparison
with the Earth must be conducted with caution. ""

As for sending industrial products
back to Earth, it's much easier and cheaper to fly from Mars to Earth
than it is the other way around. There's no reason to think that a
Mars colony could be self sufficient almost immediately and then
(after some long time) eventually profitable.

This is news. Unless the propulsion system is something we haven't heard
about, maybe similar to something that keeps on ticking like nuclear (?),
breakdowns and maintenence minimal (no Rockets-R-Us stores), not to mention
a few thousand other obstacles, like totally astronomical set up costs
topping the list, I don't think we're going there anytime soon. My great
grand daughters (2 &4) may witness the event of the first landing, but I'm
not really too optomistic of that.

ZikZak wrote:
Mars differs from the Moon in that it is actually or could be made to
be permanently habitable by a large number of humans. Mars has plenty

I don't see why. In either case, we'd have to live in pressurized environments.

of its own natural energy sources, such as solar and geothermal heat,

The Moon beats Mars by a long shot for solar power.

making it fine as a "lifeboat" for our own planet (although hopefully
it won't come to that). A Mars colony could without a doubt be self-
sufficient. One of my firends from graduate school is proving that

I have a doubt. I have many of them. The supply line is just too long.
If you could send everything a colony would ever need in one ship, then
I guess it would be possible, but that's a big 'if'.

right now on Devon Island, Canada (which has roughly the same climate
as Mars: see www.marsonearth.org). As for sending industrial products

It's "roughly" the same climate as the Moon too. In other words, not
"roughly" the same at all.

back to Earth, it's much easier and cheaper to fly from Mars to Earth
than it is the other way around. There's no reason to think that a

Unless there happens to be a Kennedy Space Center on Mars, I think
you'd have trouble making that case.

Mars colony could be self sufficient almost immediately and then
(after some long time) eventually profitable.

A colony on Mars is untenable for many reasons. The major one being
its distance. The Moon is a quarter of a million miles away. We can get
there in 3 days. Mars is 44 million miles away. The best guess for a manned
Mars mission would take 5 months travel.

We've proven we can go to the Moon. There are lots of ideas out there to
even make it profitable (look up Helium 3). Going back to the Moon makes
good sense, scientifically and economically. Let's not make the same
mistakes again and spend money on doomed and unsound projects such as
the Space Shuttle and International Space Station. Mars sounds nice, but
it would be a boondoggle at the expense of true space exploration and
colonization.

--
Don Poitras

I am another pretty passionate about this topic.


Lil ol NASA is way way down there on where our money gets spent. Entitlements
is what you should be upset about.
This chart shows how small NASA spending is...........

http://www.federalbudget.com/chart.gif

We should not have stopped going to the moon. And never should have abandoned
the Saturn V.

But hindsight is twenty twenty. And I will say we have not wasted ourselves by
any stretch on those space endevours since Apollo.

We are now at a time when shuttles is nearing its end.
But it has done things only the shuttle could have done.
We may very well live in an age where there will never again NOT be a human
presence in space. Remarkable.

Shuttle taught us things we simply cannot learn any other way.
We learn by doing. WE learn from our mistakes as well. I wont defend shuttles
costs or failures to fulfill all its ambitious goals.

The ISS teaches us much as well because we are excercising those muscles in
the real world. Nothing replaces actually doing something. We all know that as
pilots.

But we move on.

Astronauts bring back the visions of space, they bring back what its like to
see our earth as an outsider. They bring back what its like to be a child of
earth. To see our world as it truly is, an oasis in a vast black expanse.


They take human presence beyond our world.
They teach us that the sky is not the limit, that there ARE no limits.


They keep an American/western world presence in space. If we dont. Someone
else will certainly take the lead. China is seeking the high ground now.


There are reasons why this nation is where it is today.
Reasons why any of us are here at all. Brave people took the risks and went
beyond the horizon. They did so on ships they knew may not return and on
imperfect wings.

"A ship in harbor is safe -- but that is not what ships are built for."
-John A. Shedd


The oceans are littered with vessels of discovery.


Astronaut Story Musgrave.....


"We have been a frontier culture. We were born out of exploration, we were
born out of adventure. We were born out of the plains and the mountains. We've
been a very physical kind of culture. And so, if you look at adventure, if you
look at exploration, if you look at immersion in nature, a physical culture,
and all those things, you can see directly how space flight relates to the way
America has been born and how it evolved."


"You have to keep pushing the frontier not
just because it's there, but because that's how we find things that end up
changing humanity," -Paul Hill, Mission Control



Why Space, Why Explore?
Astronaut Story Musgrave...........


We have no choice, Sir. It is the Nature of Humanity, it is the Nature of Life


The Globe was created and Life Evolved, and you look at every single cubic
millimeter on this Earth, You can go 30,000 feet down below the Earth surface,
You can go 40,000 feet up in the air and Life is There. When you look at the
globe down there, you see Teeming Life Everywhere


It is the Power of Life, And maybe I am not just a Human up here, you know.
Now Life is Leaping off the Planet. It is heading to other parts of the Solar
System, other parts of the Universe


There are those kinds of Pressures. It isn't simply politics, it is not simply
technology, it is really not just the essence of humanity, but it is sort of
also, you could look at it as maybe the Essence of Life. I think Teilhard de
Chardin, in Phenomenon of Man, I believe he put that incredibly well. So those
kind of Forces are at Work. It is the nature of humans to be exploratory and
to Push On


Yes, it costs resources and it does cost a lot, and there is a risk, there is
a penalty, there is a down side, but Exploration and Pioneering, I think those
are the critical things, it is the Essence of what Human Beings are, and that
is to try to understand their Universe and to try to participate in the entire
Universe and not just their little Neighborhood -Story Musgrave





One of my most convincing arguments for space exploration is the analogy that
Earth itself is a spacecraft. Everything we learn about how to function and
live in space applies directly to our spacehip
Earth. How to recycle air, water, how to generate and use power efficiently,
how to grow food in closed ecosystems. All of it is important. All of this can
benefit mankind in a world with a fast growing population. Understanding other
worlds is how we understand OUR world better, to understand how it formed and
where it is going. Its our only home for now.



"We must not cease from exploration, and at the end of all our exploring will
be to arrive where we began, and to know it for the first time."
T.S. Eliot


Gallup survey.....


"More than three-fourths (77%) of the American public say they support a
newplan for space exploration that would include a stepping-stone approach to
returnthe space shuttle to flight, complete assembly of the space station,
build areplacement for the shuttle, go back to the Moon and then on to Mars
and beyond"




Q: Why should America send astronauts to Mars?


NASA Administrator Mike Griffin ........


A: I can give you a bunch of different answers that matter to me. But why did
Spain bankroll Magellan to leave port with five ships and head out around the
world, two of which never made it past the Canary Islands and two more of
which were lost on the way? They got one ship back three years later with
something like 20 or so people out of an initial crew of 122 across all the
ships. Why'd they do that? It is in the nature of humans to find, to define,
to explore and to push back the frontier. And in our time, the frontier is
space and will be for a very long time.


Give me a counter example to the statement I'm about to make. When the history
books are written, the nations that are preeminent in their time are those
nations that dominate the frontiers of their time. The failed societies are
the ones that pull back from the frontier. I want our society, America,
western society, to be preeminent in the world of the future and I want us not
to be a failed society. And the way to do that, universally so, is to push the
frontier.


Now we don't do that with every dollar we've got. Obviously, most of our money
has to be spent on today's concerns. But we're talking about something here
that uses six tenths of a percent of the federal budget. This is not exactly
spending money like a drunken sailor. This is an investment for our
grandchildren's grandchildren.


I could make a very good argument on the basis of economics, that the European
investment in the New World didn't pay off, really, for Europeans for 400
years. I could make an argument for you that the biggest payoff of European
investment in the New World was the existence of America to bail them out of
World War 2. Europe would have sunk into a dark age in the 20th century with
the set of political activities and behaviors that led to World War 1 and then
World War 2, which followed from that. Without the investment in the New
World, there would not have been another society elsewhere on the planet to
prevent Europe from falling back into a second dark age. And I could make an
argument that European investment in the New World was a net loss for hundreds
of years and finally was worth the effort.


These kinds of activities, as I say, they're not large in the grand scheme of
things, although it looks large when you write down the budget numbers, and
they don't pay off today. They pay off for our grandchildren's grandchildren.
And I care about that and I think everyone else should, too. -NASA
Administrator Mike Griffin



A note was found from the Challenger commander in his breifcase after the
accident...
Excerpted from Silver Linings : Triumph of the Challenger 7. by June Scobee
Rodgers and June Scobee Rogers.

"We have whole planets to explore, we have new worlds to build. We have a
solar system to roam in. And if only a tiny fraction of the human race reaches
out toward space, the work they do there will totally change the lives of all
the billions of humans who remain on earth, just as the strivings of a handful
of colonists in the new world totally changed the lives of everyone in Europe,
Asia & Africa."
p

Had Dick left the note in his briefcase for us to find if something happened?
Did he write it on scratch paper to use to quote in a speech? All we'll ever
know is that when we most needed a message, it was there. He left for us his
dream for the world, his vision for space exploration."



Please consider the above. It is about so much more then you think.
Humanity is just getting started. Mere baby steps so far.

The civilizations that lead on the frontier, end up dictating the course of
human history.



And that work continues. New designs are being worked on and tests are
beginning now.
This... is what is next for NASA.......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vZ8RIcmWAk


Lunar helium 3 may end up powering fusion reactors on earth someday.
You never know what is going to matter and change the world.

We learned of lunar helium 3 because of our exploration efforts there.

We must push forward, challenge and improve and yes sometimes manage risk.
Always.

As pilots we all know what that means personally. And we all know what it
means when we do not do these efforts.
It is no different as a nation or a species.

Moon, Mars and beyond are no different from the frontiers of the past that
called and challenged us and formed who we are today. It is simply hard coded
in our being to do these things.

Well put - and great quotes!

My alltime favorite quote (somewhat loosey quoted):

"We choose to go to the moon not because it is easy, but because it is
hard" - JFK


Austin


Mutts wrote:
I am another pretty passionate about this topic.


Lil ol NASA is way way down there on where our money gets spent. Entitlements
is what you should be upset about.
This chart shows how small NASA spending is...........

http://www.federalbudget.com/chart.gif

We should not have stopped going to the moon. And never should have abandoned
the Saturn V.

But hindsight is twenty twenty. And I will say we have not wasted ourselves by
any stretch on those space endevours since Apollo.

We are now at a time when shuttles is nearing its end.
But it has done things only the shuttle could have done.
We may very well live in an age where there will never again NOT be a human
presence in space. Remarkable.

Shuttle taught us things we simply cannot learn any other way.
We learn by doing. WE learn from our mistakes as well. I wont defend shuttles
costs or failures to fulfill all its ambitious goals.

The ISS teaches us much as well because we are excercising those muscles in
the real world. Nothing replaces actually doing something. We all know that as
pilots.

But we move on.

Astronauts bring back the visions of space, they bring back what its like to
see our earth as an outsider. They bring back what its like to be a child of
earth. To see our world as it truly is, an oasis in a vast black expanse.


They take human presence beyond our world.
They teach us that the sky is not the limit, that there ARE no limits.


They keep an American/western world presence in space. If we dont. Someone
else will certainly take the lead. China is seeking the high ground now.


There are reasons why this nation is where it is today.
Reasons why any of us are here at all. Brave people took the risks and went
beyond the horizon. They did so on ships they knew may not return and on
imperfect wings.

"A ship in harbor is safe -- but that is not what ships are built for."
-John A. Shedd


The oceans are littered with vessels of discovery.


Astronaut Story Musgrave.....


"We have been a frontier culture. We were born out of exploration, we were
born out of adventure. We were born out of the plains and the mountains. We've
been a very physical kind of culture. And so, if you look at adventure, if you
look at exploration, if you look at immersion in nature, a physical culture,
and all those things, you can see directly how space flight relates to the way
America has been born and how it evolved."


"You have to keep pushing the frontier not
just because it's there, but because that's how we find things that end up
changing humanity," -Paul Hill, Mission Control



Why Space, Why Explore?
Astronaut Story Musgrave...........


We have no choice, Sir. It is the Nature of Humanity, it is the Nature of Life


The Globe was created and Life Evolved, and you look at every single cubic
millimeter on this Earth, You can go 30,000 feet down below the Earth surface,
You can go 40,000 feet up in the air and Life is There. When you look at the
globe down there, you see Teeming Life Everywhere


It is the Power of Life, And maybe I am not just a Human up here, you know.
Now Life is Leaping off the Planet. It is heading to other parts of the Solar
System, other parts of the Universe


There are those kinds of Pressures. It isn't simply politics, it is not simply
technology, it is really not just the essence of humanity, but it is sort of
also, you could look at it as maybe the Essence of Life. I think Teilhard de
Chardin, in Phenomenon of Man, I believe he put that incredibly well. So those
kind of Forces are at Work. It is the nature of humans to be exploratory and
to Push On


Yes, it costs resources and it does cost a lot, and there is a risk, there is
a penalty, there is a down side, but Exploration and Pioneering, I think those
are the critical things, it is the Essence of what Human Beings are, and that
is to try to understand their Universe and to try to participate in the entire
Universe and not just their little Neighborhood -Story Musgrave





One of my most convincing arguments for space exploration is the analogy that
Earth itself is a spacecraft. Everything we learn about how to function and
live in space applies directly to our spacehip
Earth. How to recycle air, water, how to generate and use power efficiently,
how to grow food in closed ecosystems. All of it is important. All of this can
benefit mankind in a world with a fast growing population. Understanding other
worlds is how we understand OUR world better, to understand how it formed and
where it is going. Its our only home for now.



"We must not cease from exploration, and at the end of all our exploring will
be to arrive where we began, and to know it for the first time."
T.S. Eliot


Gallup survey.....


"More than three-fourths (77%) of the American public say they support a
newplan for space exploration that would include a stepping-stone approach to
returnthe space shuttle to flight, complete assembly of the space station,
build areplacement for the shuttle, go back to the Moon and then on to Mars
and beyond"




Q: Why should America send astronauts to Mars?


NASA Administrator Mike Griffin ........


A: I can give you a bunch of different answers that matter to me. But why did
Spain bankroll Magellan to leave port with five ships and head out around the
world, two of which never made it past the Canary Islands and two more of
which were lost on the way? They got one ship back three years later with
something like 20 or so people out of an initial crew of 122 across all the
ships. Why'd they do that? It is in the nature of humans to find, to define,
to explore and to push back the frontier. And in our time, the frontier is
space and will be for a very long time.


Give me a counter example to the statement I'm about to make. When the history
books are written, the nations that are preeminent in their time are those
nations that dominate the frontiers of their time. The failed societies are
the ones that pull back from the frontier. I want our society, America,
western society, to be preeminent in the world of the future and I want us not
to be a failed society. And the way to do that, universally so, is to push the
frontier.


Now we don't do that with every dollar we've got. Obviously, most of our money
has to be spent on today's concerns. But we're talking about something here
that uses six tenths of a percent of the federal budget. This is not exactly
spending money like a drunken sailor. This is an investment for our
grandchildren's grandchildren.


I could make a very good argument on the basis of economics, that the European
investment in the New World didn't pay off, really, for Europeans for 400
years. I could make an argument for you that the biggest payoff of European
investment in the New World was the existence of America to bail them out of
World War 2. Europe would have sunk into a dark age in the 20th century with
the set of political activities and behaviors that led to World War 1 and then
World War 2, which followed from that. Without the investment in the New
World, there would not have been another society elsewhere on the planet to
prevent Europe from falling back into a second dark age. And I could make an
argument that European investment in the New World was a net loss for hundreds
of years and finally was worth the effort.


These kinds of activities, as I say, they're not large in the grand scheme of
things, although it looks large when you write down the budget numbers, and
they don't pay off today. They pay off for our grandchildren's grandchildren.
And I care about that and I think everyone else should, too. -NASA
Administrator Mike Griffin



A note was found from the Challenger commander in his breifcase after the
accident...
Excerpted from Silver Linings : Triumph of the Challenger 7. by June Scobee
Rodgers and June Scobee Rogers.

"We have whole planets to explore, we have new worlds to build. We have a
solar system to roam in. And if only a tiny fraction of the human race reaches
out toward space, the work they do there will totally change the lives of all
the billions of humans who remain on earth, just as the strivings of a handful
of colonists in the new world totally changed the lives of everyone in Europe,
Asia & Africa."
p

Had Dick left the note in his briefcase for us to find if something happened?
Did he write it on scratch paper to use to quote in a speech? All we'll ever
know is that when we most needed a message, it was there. He left for us his
dream for the world, his vision for space exploration."



Please consider the above. It is about so much more then you think.
Humanity is just getting started. Mere baby steps so far.

The civilizations that lead on the frontier, end up dictating the course of
human history.



And that work continues. New designs are being worked on and tests are
beginning now.
This... is what is next for NASA.......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vZ8RIcmWAk


Lunar helium 3 may end up powering fusion reactors on earth someday.
You never know what is going to matter and change the world.

We learned of lunar helium 3 because of our exploration efforts there.

We must push forward, challenge and improve and yes sometimes manage risk.
Always.

As pilots we all know what that means personally. And we all know what it
means when we do not do these efforts.
It is no different as a nation or a species.

Moon, Mars and beyond are no different from the frontiers of the past that
called and challenged us and formed who we are today. It is simply hard coded
in our being to do these things.

("Austin Gosling" wrote)
My alltime favorite quote (somewhat loosey quoted):

"We choose to go to the moon not because it is easy, but because it is
hard" - JFK


President John F. Kennedy
Delivered in person before a joint session of Congress
May 25, 1961

http://tinyurl.com/2rmcsy
(same link as below)

find ........ May 25, 1961 click on it
click ...... "Listen to excerpt of this speech"
click ...... "Change Media Prefferences"
click ...... "Choose an Audio Player"
click ...... "Download this File"

http://www.jfklibrary.org/Historical+Resources/Archives/Reference+Desk/Speeches/Speeches+of+John+F.+Kennedy.htm

President John F. Kennedy
Delivered in person before a joint session of Congress
May 25, 1961

IX. SPACE

Finally, if we are to win the battle that is now going on around the world
between freedom and tyranny, the dramatic achievements in space which
occurred in recent weeks should have made clear to us all, as did the
Sputnik in 1957, the impact of this adventure on the minds of men
everywhere, who are attempting to make a determination of which road they
should take. Since early in my term, our efforts in space have been under
review. With the advice of the Vice President, who is Chairman of the
National Space Council, we have examined where we are strong and where we
are not, where we may succeed and where we may not. Now it is time to take
longer strides--time for a great new American enterprise--time for this
nation to take a clearly leading role in space achievement, which in many
ways may hold the key to our future on earth.

I believe we possess all the resources and talents necessary. But the facts
of the matter are that we have never made the national decisions or
marshalled the national resources required for such leadership. We have
never specified long-range goals on an urgent time schedule, or managed our
resources and our time so as to insure their fulfillment.

Recognizing the head start obtained by the Soviets with their large rocket
engines, which gives them many months of leadtime, and recognizing the
likelihood that they will exploit this lead for some time to come in still
more impressive successes, we nevertheless are required to make new efforts
on our own. For while we cannot guarantee that we shall one day be first, we
can guarantee that any failure to make this effort will make us last. We
take an additional risk by making it in full view of the world, but as shown
by the feat of astronaut Shepard, this very risk enhances our stature when
we are successful. But this is not merely a race. Space is open to us now;
and our eagerness to share its meaning is not governed by the efforts of
others. We go into space because whatever mankind must undertake, free men
must fully share.

I therefore ask the Congress, above and beyond the increases I have earlier
requested for space activities, to provide the funds which are needed to
meet the following national goals:

First, I believe that this nation should commit itself to achieving the
goal, before this decade is out, of landing a man on the moon and returning
him safely to the earth. No single space project in this period will be more
impressive to mankind, or more important for the long-range exploration of
space; and none will be so difficult or expensive to accomplish. We propose
to accelerate the development of the appropriate lunar space craft. We
propose to develop alternate liquid and solid fuel boosters, much larger
than any now being developed, until certain which is superior. We propose
additional funds for other engine development and for unmanned
explorations--explorations which are particularly important for one purpose
which this nation will never overlook: the survival of the man who first
makes this daring flight. But in a very real sense, it will not be one man
going to the moon--if we make this judgment affirmatively, it will be an
entire nation. For all of us must work to put him there.

Secondly, an additional 23 million dollars, together with 7 million dollars
already available, will accelerate development of the Rover nuclear rocket.
This gives promise of some day providing a means for even more exciting and
ambitious exploration of space, perhaps beyond the moon, perhaps to the very
end of the solar system itself.

Third, an additional 50 million dollars will make the most of our present
leadership, by accelerating the use of space satellites for world-wide
communications.

Fourth, an additional 75 million dollars--of which 53 million dollars is for
the Weather Bureau--will help give us at the earliest possible time a
satellite system for world-wide weather observation.

Let it be clear--and this is a judgment which the Members of the Congress
must finally make--let it be clear that I am asking the Congress and the
country to accept a firm commitment to a new course of action, a course
which will last for many years and carry very heavy costs: 531 million
dollars in fiscal '62--an estimated seven to nine billion dollars additional
over the next five years. If we are to go only half way, or reduce our
sights in the face of difficulty, in my judgment it would be better not to
go at all.

Now this is a choice which this country must make, and I am confident that
under the leadership of the Space Committees of the Congress, and the
Appropriating Committees, that you will consider the matter carefully.

It is a most important decision that we make as a nation. But all of you
have lived through the last four years and have seen the significance of
space and the adventures in space, and no one can predict with certainty
what the ultimate meaning will be of mastery of space.

I believe we should go to the moon. But I think every citizen of this
country as well as the Members of the Congress should consider the matter
carefully in making their judgment, to which we have given attention over
many weeks and months, because it is a heavy burden, and there is no sense
in agreeing or desiring that the United States take an affirmative position
in outer space, unless we are prepared to do the work and bear the burdens
to make it successful. If we are not, we should decide today and this year.

This decision demands a major national commitment of scientific and
technical manpower, materiel and facilities, and the possibility of their
diversion from other important activities where they are already thinly
spread. It means a degree of dedication, organization and discipline which
have not always characterized our research and development efforts. It means
we cannot afford undue work stoppages, inflated costs of material or talent,
wasteful interagency rivalries, or a high turnover of key personnel.

New objectives and new money cannot solve these problems. They could in
fact, aggravate them further--unless every scientist, every engineer, every
serviceman, every technician, contractor, and civil servant gives his
personal pledge that this nation will move forward, with the full speed of
freedom, in the exciting adventure of space.


Montblack

This is odd - I know for certain that I have seen a video, where JFK
said (as best I can remember) "We choose to got to the moon
[cheering],... we choose to go to the moon and do the other things, not
because they are easy, but because they are hard." That text isn't in
this one.

Aah - here is the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yz9OXE91fP0

Montblack wrote:
("Austin Gosling" wrote)
My alltime favorite quote (somewhat loosey quoted):

"We choose to go to the moon not because it is easy, but because it is
hard" - JFK


President John F. Kennedy
Delivered in person before a joint session of Congress
May 25, 1961

http://tinyurl.com/2rmcsy
(same link as below)

find ........ May 25, 1961 click on it
click ...... "Listen to excerpt of this speech"
click ...... "Change Media Prefferences"
click ...... "Choose an Audio Player"
click ...... "Download this File"

http://www.jfklibrary.org/Historical+Resources/Archives/Reference+Desk/Speeches/Speeches+of+John+F.+Kennedy.htm

President John F. Kennedy
Delivered in person before a joint session of Congress
May 25, 1961

IX. SPACE

Finally, if we are to win the battle that is now going on around the world
between freedom and tyranny, the dramatic achievements in space which
occurred in recent weeks should have made clear to us all, as did the
Sputnik in 1957, the impact of this adventure on the minds of men
everywhere, who are attempting to make a determination of which road they
should take. Since early in my term, our efforts in space have been under
review. With the advice of the Vice President, who is Chairman of the
National Space Council, we have examined where we are strong and where we
are not, where we may succeed and where we may not. Now it is time to take
longer strides--time for a great new American enterprise--time for this
nation to take a clearly leading role in space achievement, which in many
ways may hold the key to our future on earth.

I believe we possess all the resources and talents necessary. But the facts
of the matter are that we have never made the national decisions or
marshalled the national resources required for such leadership. We have
never specified long-range goals on an urgent time schedule, or managed our
resources and our time so as to insure their fulfillment.

Recognizing the head start obtained by the Soviets with their large rocket
engines, which gives them many months of leadtime, and recognizing the
likelihood that they will exploit this lead for some time to come in still
more impressive successes, we nevertheless are required to make new efforts
on our own. For while we cannot guarantee that we shall one day be first, we
can guarantee that any failure to make this effort will make us last. We
take an additional risk by making it in full view of the world, but as shown
by the feat of astronaut Shepard, this very risk enhances our stature when
we are successful. But this is not merely a race. Space is open to us now;
and our eagerness to share its meaning is not governed by the efforts of
others. We go into space because whatever mankind must undertake, free men
must fully share.

I therefore ask the Congress, above and beyond the increases I have earlier
requested for space activities, to provide the funds which are needed to
meet the following national goals:

First, I believe that this nation should commit itself to achieving the
goal, before this decade is out, of landing a man on the moon and returning
him safely to the earth. No single space project in this period will be more
impressive to mankind, or more important for the long-range exploration of
space; and none will be so difficult or expensive to accomplish. We propose
to accelerate the development of the appropriate lunar space craft. We
propose to develop alternate liquid and solid fuel boosters, much larger
than any now being developed, until certain which is superior. We propose
additional funds for other engine development and for unmanned
explorations--explorations which are particularly important for one purpose
which this nation will never overlook: the survival of the man who first
makes this daring flight. But in a very real sense, it will not be one man
going to the moon--if we make this judgment affirmatively, it will be an
entire nation. For all of us must work to put him there.

Secondly, an additional 23 million dollars, together with 7 million dollars
already available, will accelerate development of the Rover nuclear rocket.
This gives promise of some day providing a means for even more exciting and
ambitious exploration of space, perhaps beyond the moon, perhaps to the very
end of the solar system itself.

Third, an additional 50 million dollars will make the most of our present
leadership, by accelerating the use of space satellites for world-wide
communications.

Fourth, an additional 75 million dollars--of which 53 million dollars is for
the Weather Bureau--will help give us at the earliest possible time a
satellite system for world-wide weather observation.

Let it be clear--and this is a judgment which the Members of the Congress
must finally make--let it be clear that I am asking the Congress and the
country to accept a firm commitment to a new course of action, a course
which will last for many years and carry very heavy costs: 531 million
dollars in fiscal '62--an estimated seven to nine billion dollars additional
over the next five years. If we are to go only half way, or reduce our
sights in the face of difficulty, in my judgment it would be better not to
go at all.

Now this is a choice which this country must make, and I am confident that
under the leadership of the Space Committees of the Congress, and the
Appropriating Committees, that you will consider the matter carefully.

It is a most important decision that we make as a nation. But all of you
have lived through the last four years and have seen the significance of
space and the adventures in space, and no one can predict with certainty
what the ultimate meaning will be of mastery of space.

I believe we should go to the moon. But I think every citizen of this
country as well as the Members of the Congress should consider the matter
carefully in making their judgment, to which we have given attention over
many weeks and months, because it is a heavy burden, and there is no sense
in agreeing or desiring that the United States take an affirmative position
in outer space, unless we are prepared to do the work and bear the burdens
to make it successful. If we are not, we should decide today and this year.

This decision demands a major national commitment of scientific and
technical manpower, materiel and facilities, and the possibility of their
diversion from other important activities where they are already thinly
spread. It means a degree of dedication, organization and discipline which
have not always characterized our research and development efforts. It means
we cannot afford undue work stoppages, inflated costs of material or talent,
wasteful interagency rivalries, or a high turnover of key personnel.

New objectives and new money cannot solve these problems. They could in
fact, aggravate them further--unless every scientist, every engineer, every
serviceman, every technician, contractor, and civil servant gives his
personal pledge that this nation will move forward, with the full speed of
freedom, in the exciting adventure of space.


Montblack