A380 captain's pay

On 25 May 2007 12:36:27 -0700, Gary wrote:


The odds of you getting hired by anyone who has seen you post on
usenet are long indeed...

What if he's applying for "The Argument Room"?

=8^0

In a previous article, Mxsmanic said:
Robert M. Gary writes:
Where can I get a software engineer in the US for 75K?? I've been
trying to grow my U.S. team for quiet some time but even six figure
saleries don't generate a lot of response.

Are these telecommuting positions?

The problem with "telecommuting positions" is that if they want
telecommuters, they want Indian, Chinese, or Eastern European
telecommuters, or people willing to work for those types of wages.


--
Paul Tomblin http://blog.xcski.com/
Don't you just hate them? Don't you just wanna break their ribs,
cut their backs open and pull their lungs out from behind?
-- Ina Faye-Lund, on script kiddies

On May 25, 3:17 pm, (Paul Tomblin) wrote:
In a previous article, Mxsmanic said:

Robert M. Gary writes:
Where can I get a software engineer in the US for 75K?? I've been
trying to grow my U.S. team for quiet some time but even six figure
saleries don't generate a lot of response.

Are these telecommuting positions?

The problem with "telecommuting positions" is that if they want
telecommuters, they want Indian, Chinese, or Eastern European
telecommuters, or people willing to work for those types of wages.

The cost is actually a very small factor in overseas hiring in the
software industry. Our two main motivating factors are 1) we want a
large pool to hire from, in the U.S. right now its very much an
employees market, its hard for employeers to find "good" (not the high
school kids that were hired during the internet bubble, real engineers
with real engineering degrees) programmers to pick from and 2) Since a
large amount of sales come from overseas its hard to explain to a
foreign country or company why they should buy your product if you
don't spend any money in their country (i.e. "why should I buy your
product if you won't hire anyone from my country")? Its the same
reason Boeing subs out the 777 all over the world, those country are
customers too.
BTW: The cost savings in India for programmers is all but totally
gone. China will always have a small roll because of the extream
language difference. Eastern Europe is probably going to see a large
increase in technology hiring in the near term.

-Robert, BS Computer Science, MBA, holder of 3 U.S. patents for
software

Paul Tomblin writes:

The problem with "telecommuting positions" is that if they want
telecommuters, they want Indian, Chinese, or Eastern European
telecommuters, or people willing to work for those types of wages.

That's not a problem for the employer; that is presumably the whole idea. If
the employer has experience with workers in these countries, either it has set
up development centers in those countries or it has telecommuting. Either
way, it should be possible to find workers at much less than $75K, at least
for now.

It's all temporary, though. It's possible to temporarily take advantage of
differences in cost of living, but the mere fact of doing so changes those
costs of living and the differences among them, and eventually you are once
again paying the same for workers everywhere. This is already happening in
places like India.

There are other problems with chasing the lowest possible wages; often this is
the one and only advantage to outsourcing abroad, and it turns out to be more
than negated by other disadvantages of this type of hiring. For example, the
turnover of employees is often several hunded percent per year, and it's
impossible to train them because they don't stay long enough to amortize the
training and it's too costly to train replacements every 90 days.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

On Fri, 25 May 2007 15:22:00 GMT, John Theune
wrote:

Kingfish wrote:
Interesting article here on the arbitration case between Singapore
Airlines and its pilots. The court ruled SIA must pay A380 captains
more than 747 captains. Duh? If it's bigger, heavier and has more
seats that should be a no-brainer IMHO, unless of course the airline
is trying to contain labor costs. I was amazed to see their monthly
base pay of $10k for 747 captains. $120k/yr to fly a 747? Even
allowing for per diem and other stuff, SWA's 737 captains make a lot
more than that...


http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...paid-more.html

Pay is always based on the location of the job. Software engineers in
the US make 75K but in Bangalore they make 5K. Why would it be
They took a pay cut? My late cousin was making considerably more than
that 10 years ago. That too depended on what you were doing and where.
I understood that a lot of pilots flying the "big iron" have taken
some serious pay cuts in the past few years.

different for pilots?

On May 27, 8:13 pm, "Roger (K8RI)" wrote:
On Fri, 25 May 2007 15:22:00 GMT, John Theune
wrote:

Kingfish wrote:
Interesting article here on the arbitration case between Singapore
Airlines and its pilots. The court ruled SIA must pay A380 captains
more than 747 captains. Duh? If it's bigger, heavier and has more
seats that should be a no-brainer IMHO, unless of course the airline
is trying to contain labor costs. I was amazed to see their monthly
base pay of $10k for 747 captains. $120k/yr to fly a 747? Even
allowing for per diem and other stuff, SWA's 737 captains make a lot
more than that...

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...court-rules-si...

Pay is always based on the location of the job. Software engineers in
the US make 75K but in Bangalore they make 5K. Why would it be

They took a pay cut? My late cousin was making considerably more than
that 10 years ago. That too depended on what you were doing and where.
I understood that a lot of pilots flying the "big iron" have taken
some serious pay cuts in the past few years.

Software engineers who are still using skills from 1995 are probably
making 75K. If you aren't attending conferences (like Java One, etc)
and going to training at least once a year you can't expect to make
much more.

-Robert

Robert M. Gary writes:

Software engineers who are still using skills from 1995 are probably
making 75K. If you aren't attending conferences (like Java One, etc)
and going to training at least once a year you can't expect to make
much more.

Conferences and training are just ways to make money from the naïve.

On May 30, 2:09 pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
Conferences and training are just ways to make money from the naïve.

Interesting statement. Perhaps you could tell us how this philosophy
has helped your own career in IT?

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Robert M. Gary writes:

Software engineers who are still using skills from 1995 are probably
making 75K. If you aren't attending conferences (like Java One, etc)
and going to training at least once a year you can't expect to make
much more.

Conferences and training are just ways to make money from the naïve.



Yeah, all the money they wasted training me to fly is obviously a waste..

Fjukkktard.

Bertie

On May 30, 11:09 am, Mxsmanic wrote:
Robert M. Gary writes:
Software engineers who are still using skills from 1995 are probably
making 75K. If you aren't attending conferences (like Java One, etc)
and going to training at least once a year you can't expect to make
much more.

Conferences and training are just ways to make money from the naïve.

Sounds like someone can't afford the $5000 for the conference pass and
is a bit bitter about it. If you are working in IT you can expense it
so I don't care what it costs. If you think for a second that having
recent conferences and training on your resume doesn't make a
difference you are in a way different world than the rest of us.
Bottom line, I'm easily making 6 figures and have enough money in the
bank that the 5% etrade savings account pays me comes out to more than
you said you make a year. So, you can argue with me if you want but
I'm out here making money and you're at home bitching.

-Robert