Flight Lessons

"S. Sampson" wrote:


my ol' man or any other self-respecting
fighter pilot (as opposed to "pilot who flew fighters") wouldn't scoff
at what's available in civilian programs.

Pilots who flew fighters are called fighter pilots.

I'm sorry, but they aren't. Folks are called "fighter pilots" by
others who measure them. They don't self-anoint and the mere
assignment does not confer the title.

I think if he were still
alive today, the notion of women flying combat would make him go
"straight up and break left"

He was probably a red-neck, and the thought of darkies holding the
stick probably scared him more than women.

That's never been a part of the discussion and to attribute that to a
gentleman you don't know anything about is an injustice.

and he'd spit on the current crop of
fighter pilots not because they aren't any good, but because of
political correctness.

Who gives a ****. He's dead now. Only the worms know what he's
thinking now.

And, that addendum is too low to even elicit response.

As I mentioned to Tarver, we all should stop more often to consider
the value of the response we offer. Sometimes when we have nothing to
say, we would do well to refrain from saying it.



Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (ret)
***"When Thunder Rolled:
*** An F-105 Pilot Over N. Vietnam"
*** from Smithsonian Books
ISBN: 1588341038

Unless it has changed from years past, the brain is generally disengaged whilst
the head is up and locked you know where. (^-^)))

George Z.

Ed Rasimus wrote:
"Tarver Engineering" wrote:


One of the most vivid examples I've encountered is an AF
captain--call-sign "Shooter". Graduate of USAFA, went to Nav school,
flew combat as an F-15E WSO. Qualified for pilot training (a very
competitive process for operational navs) and went to Vipers out of
pilot training. Flew more combat in Vipers. Drinks well, knows the
words to all the songs!

Dancing nekid on the bar ...


You need to learn how to edit.

And, she's an AF officer and "dancing nekid" isn't part of the job
description.

Take a moment to consider the benefit you're adding to the discussion
before posting.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (ret)
***"When Thunder Rolled:
*** An F-105 Pilot Over N. Vietnam"
*** from Smithsonian Books
ISBN: 1588341038

"Ed Rasimus" wrote in message
...
"Tarver Engineering" wrote:


One of the most vivid examples I've encountered is an AF
captain--call-sign "Shooter". Graduate of USAFA, went to Nav school,
flew combat as an F-15E WSO. Qualified for pilot training (a very
competitive process for operational navs) and went to Vipers out of
pilot training. Flew more combat in Vipers. Drinks well, knows the
words to all the songs!

Dancing nekid on the bar ...


You need to learn how to edit.

It is your last paragraph, Ed.

And, she's an AF officer and "dancing nekid" isn't part of the job
description.

I was suggesting the dance for your drunken self.

Ed, you are an optimist.

Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired


"Tarver Engineering" wrote:


One of the most vivid examples I've encountered is an AF
captain--call-sign "Shooter". Graduate of USAFA, went to Nav school,
flew combat as an F-15E WSO. Qualified for pilot training (a very
competitive process for operational navs) and went to Vipers out of
pilot training. Flew more combat in Vipers. Drinks well, knows the
words to all the songs!

Dancing nekid on the bar ...


You need to learn how to edit.

And, she's an AF officer and "dancing nekid" isn't part of the job
description.

Take a moment to consider the benefit you're adding to the discussion
before posting.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (ret)
***"When Thunder Rolled:
*** An F-105 Pilot Over N. Vietnam"
*** from Smithsonian Books
ISBN: 1588341038

"Tarver Engineering" wrote in message ...
Dancing nekid on the bar ...


You quoted four pages of material (which I've clipped) just to offer a stupid joke.
Please spare us your sense of humor, and please learn to avoid excessive quoting.

Why am I posting this as opposed to mailing directly? So we can all learn from
Mr. Tarver's mistake. Don't quote excessively!

"Charles Talleyrand" wrote in message
...

"Tarver Engineering" wrote in message
...
Dancing nekid on the bar ...


You quoted four pages of material (which I've clipped)

Poor baby.

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...


Well if we take all the US and British servicemen we can say that WW
II was
won by a few million high school graduates. (grin)


Hell my father left school at the age of 13 and nobody asked him
what academic qualifications he had when he joined the army in 1938.

As long as you had 2 eyes, all your limbs and didnt have
flat feet you were in the infantry.

Keith

Lots of folks have griped over the years about the college graduate
requirement, but the fact is that modern aircraft (and the integrated
weapons system in which they operate) are very complex and the degree
offers an indication that the individual will be able to deal with the
complexity. Additionally, there are more than enough candidates who
meet the criteria that it doesn't need to be modified.

Often in my life I've had occasion to point out to youngsters that you
don't get a degree to prepare yourself for a career. You get a degree
so that you can be in that group of people who are considered worthy
of trying out for a career.

Before about 1942, to be accepted for pilot training as a commissioned
officer, you had to have two years of college behind you--this in a
time when the army and navy were drawing from a pool of young man
who'd grown up in the the Great Depression. A bachelor's degree in say
1939 was about as rare as a PhD today. So being selective is nothing
new for the air forces.

This requirement was of course relaxed during the war, and men like
Chuck Yeager (who'd trained under a special program for
sergeant-pilots) managed to become pilots, officers, and gentlemen
without the two years of college. But most of them, if they stayed in
the service postwar, went sent back to college by the Air Force or
managed a degree on their own, through the Univ of Maryland or similar
programs.


all the best -- Dan Ford
email: www.danford.net/letters.htm#9

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

Its interesting to note that the RAF still doesnt require a college
education for its pilots.

Secondary education in the UK is tracked, tested, and standards
enforced. There's absolutely no comparison between the graduate of an
American high school and an equivalent university-track student in
Britain.

Isn't Cranwell (the RAF equivalent of West Point) still a two-year
course? And aren't most UK bachelor's-degree programs still three
years in duration?

These aren't indications of a lesser interest in higher education on
the part of Brits (though there is some of that as well, especially
with respect to women). They're a recognition that British schools and
universities get their students better prepared, at least when it
comes to academics.

I went to graduate school in Manchester. My friends were all
undergraduates, and many were first-year students.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: www.danford.net/letters.htm#9

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

"Cub Driver" wrote in message
...


Its interesting to note that the RAF still doesnt require a college
education for its pilots.

Secondary education in the UK is tracked, tested, and standards
enforced. There's absolutely no comparison between the graduate of an
American high school and an equivalent university-track student in
Britain.

Isn't Cranwell (the RAF equivalent of West Point) still a two-year
course?

All officer student aircrew complete a 24-week Initial Officer Training
(IOT)
course at RAF College Cranwell, they then progress to the elementary flying
training course at RAF Church Fenton where they receive common core
groundschool training and EFT or if they joined via a University Air
Squadron
EFT is given at Barkston Heath

To progress beyond EFT students are required to pass a Final Handling Test
At this stage pilots are selected for 1 of 3 streams

Fast-Jet Stream
Pilots selected for fast-jet streaming progress to BFJT on the Tucano at RAF
Linton-on-Ouse. The 124 hour BFJT course is designed as a lead in to
fast-jet ATTU at RAF Valley. On successful completion of BFJT, students are
posted to the ATTU to complete advanced flying training, tactics and weapons
training on the Hawk. At the end of this course, pilots are assessed for
either single or 2 seat operations and most progress to an Operational
Conversion Unit (OCU) prior to joining a front-line fast-jet squadron.

Multi-Engine Stream
Approximately half of all ab-initio pilots destined for multi-engine (ME)
training are directly streamed and complete a 30 hour Multi-Engine Lead-In
(MELIN) course on the Firefly. The remainder of the annual intake comprises
students restreamed to ME from elsewhere in pilot training. All are posted
to 45(R) Squadron at RAF College Cranwell to complete either a 70 hour, 45
hour or 30 hour AFT course on the Jetstream, before progressing to an OCU
and a front-line squadron.

Rotary Stream
RAF rotary wing pilot training is conducted at DHFS, RAF Shawbury. The RAF
course comprises a 37 hour basic phase and an 30 hour advanced stage, both
of which are conducted on the Squirrel. Following this, students undertake
64 hours of multi-engine flying on the Griffin before completing 12 hours
SAR training. Successful students then progress through Operational
Conversion Flights to front-line squadrons.

And aren't most UK bachelor's-degree programs still three
years in duration?


For the most part yes though there are some colleges that run 2 year
courses for high flyers or those with pre-existing lesser qualiications
such as the HND/HNC technical qualifications.

Keith