A-12 on Intrepid

Peter Twydell wrote in message ...
In article , Michael
Kube-McDowell writes
On Tue, 5 Aug 2003 16:06:07 +0100, "Keith Willshaw"
wrote:


"Jeanne" wrote in message
. com...

This particular A-12 was "bought" by
Zak Fisher, the Late CEO/founder of the Intrepid. The A-12 on Intrepid
is just that---a meal ticket, a draw, and they consider her as nothing
more. Just like you, I was out there when they first put her on the
deck. It was what drove me to help her. If you read any of the text at
my website, there's the explanation. Only the SR-71/A-12 Blackbird
people/affeciandos can save her now by making a fuss over her
treatment.


The alternative to that aircraft going to Intrepid was more likely
the scrapyard, thats where most went after all.

True of many workaday aircraft, but not the Blackbirds. Look at any
list of them by serial number (there's one at
http://digilander.libero.it/maddog666/serie.htm) and you'll see that
every single one of them begins "Lost..." "On display at..." or "In
storage for...".


Blue on black is very difficult to read!

Neither this site nor the one mentioned earlier by John Weeks shows that
SR-71A 64-17962 has been at the Imperial War Museum at Duxford since May
2001.


I found it very interesting that a Blackbird had been allowed out of
this country, albeit a friendly nation. Lots of politics there.

Jeannette

"Jeanne" wrote in message
om...
"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message
news:bgq7p2$ks0$1

And many of those 'on display' are outside and in no better condition
than the one on Intrepid

Gate guardians are rarely well maintained

Keith

There are no gate guards made up of A-12's. All of the ones that are
out there have had issues but none are displayed with the recklessness
of the Intrepid. Take a look at the Minn ANG A-12, gorgeous condition.
The one that is at the Alabama museum is now indoors,

It was pretty shabby looking when outdoors in the parking lot

http://www.themindspill.com/air_spac...e/ASRC/A12.jpg

Blackbird Park
has the great weather so outdoor exhibition isn't too much of an
issue. It goes on.

Yet further down you complain of the effects the heat has on
the aircraft out of doors in New York. Now given that Blackbird Park
is in the Mjave desert ....

Considering there are only 9 of these aircraft in
existance with #121 and #122 being the flight test vehicles, ( #122
's cockpit is what the fleet would have looked like if continued and
not canceled) and the fact that #122 also sports the "barracuda" on
her nose. #121 and #124 do not have it. The "Barracuda" was added to
help solve the problem of the windshield glass sealant getting so hot
it melted and ran back on the glass, it caused the max heat point to
be onto itself rather than on the windshield frame. Intrepid's bird
deserves better conditions.


You still havent explained how they are supposed to move
a 102ft long aircraft below decks using a 65ft long elevator

Keith

"John A. Weeks III" wrote in message ...
In article , Keith Willshaw
wrote:

The alternative to that aircraft going to Intrepid was more likely
the scrapyard, thats where most went after all.

Bull. Not one single Blackbird has been scrapped since the
program was shut down and the Blackbirds sent to museums. This
are historically significant aircarft, and they deserve to be
treated as the museum pieces that they are.

I sympathise with your concerns but frankly Intrepid loses
money as it is, the only admission charges dont cover maintenance
costs and without the money from those banquets the museum
would go bust.

Well, if the Intrepid cannot take care of this historic aircraft,
then they should give it up to someone who can. There are dozens
of musuems that would love to have a Blackbird.

-john-

Intrepid's corporate atmosphere and it's CEO/PR/ finanical/ officers
are ALL making from 90,000 to 6 figure salaries. Everyone of them.
They spend virtually NOTHING on exhibits, rely on former crewmembers
and vocational schools and volunteers to support the museum staff, and
they spend nothing on the flight deck and hanger deck exhibit aircraft
excerpt for the occasional house pain that they use to paint the A-12.
there is NOT ONE curator or historial on the staff. However, there are
plenty of PR people. John is right. There are lots of museums that
would LOVE to have that aircraft! However, due to "politics" they will
never have the chance.

Jeannette

"Jeanne" wrote in message
om...
"John A. Weeks III" wrote in message
...
In article , Keith Willshaw
wrote:


Intrepid's corporate atmosphere and it's CEO/PR/ finanical/ officers
are ALL making from 90,000 to 6 figure salaries.

Please provide a cite to substantiate the claim that the Intrepid museum CEO
draws a 6 figure salary from that organisation

Everyone of them.
They spend virtually NOTHING on exhibits, rely on former crewmembers
and vocational schools and volunteers to support the museum staff, and
they spend nothing on the flight deck and hanger deck exhibit aircraft
excerpt for the occasional house pain that they use to paint the A-12.
there is NOT ONE curator or historial on the staff. However, there are
plenty of PR people. John is right. There are lots of museums that
would LOVE to have that aircraft! However, due to "politics" they will
never have the chance.

Jeannette

Hmm their website lists the following recently completed
capital projects

Allison & Howard Lutnick Theater
The Museum has installed a new, state-of-the-art 245 seat theatre.

Visitor Center
The Museum has constructed a modern, inviting facility as the Museum's new
Visitor Center

Crew Mess Area
In May 2001 the Museum opened the Crew Mess Area to accommodate school and
tour groups and other Museum visitors.

Full-Access Elevator
A new elevator, funded by the Disabled American Veterans, allows complete
access to the Intrepid's Flight, Hangar and Third Decks

Flight Deck
A Congressional appropriation allowed for the replacement of the Intrepid's
old wooden flight deck, which had seriously deteriorated over time, with a
new steel surface

HVAC System
A new air conditioning and heating system has been installed in the Museum's
Hangar Deck.

Exhibit: Defending Our Future
Defending our Future is an interactive exhibit showcasing our nation's
latest military technology and equipment

Exhibit: Mission Control
Mission Control teaches about the history of America's exploration of space,
from the first space flights to today's international space station

Amongst their planned projects is

Hangar Facility
The Museum will construct a hangar building to accommodate the restoration
of the aircraft on display at the Intrepid Sea Air Space Museum. Students
from the College of Aeronautics in New York will restore the aircraft under
the supervision of faculty members of the College in a credit-bearing course
in aircraft restoration. These students will work within the new hangar
building, which will feature large windows on one side to allow Museum
visitors to view the work in progress.

I note further that your portrait of Zachary Fisher is rather
different than that in a back issue of Navy News

Quote
NEW YORK (NNS) -- The Presidental Medal of Freedom Award, the
highest honor that can be awarded a United States citizen, was
presented Monday to Zachary Fisher by President Clinton in a
private ceremony at the Waldof Astoria hotel in New York City. The
ceremony was attended by Mrs. Clinton, Secretary of Defense
William S. Cohen and the heads of all five branches of military
service. Fisher was awarded the medal for his steadfast and
generous support of the U.S. military.

snip
In 1978, Fisher founded the Intrepid Museum Foundation to
save the historic and battle-scarred aircraft carrier Intrepid
from scrapping. Through his efforts the vessel became the
foundation of the Intrepid Sea Air Space Museum, which opened in
New York City in 1982. Since that time, Fisher has contributed
more than $25 million to the establishment and operation of the
Museum, a tribute to the thousands of military men and women who
have served and continue to serve our country.
snip
In addition to founding the Intrepid Museum, Fisher and his
wife formed the Zachery and Elizabeth Fisher Armed Services
Foundation to provide contributions to families who survive the
death of a loved one in the armed service. These began with a
$10,000 contribution to each of the families of the 238 victims of
the bombing of the Marine barracks in Beirut in 1983. Since then,
the Foundation has sent more than 600 checks of more than $10,000
each to the families of other military personnel who have been
killed.
snip
The Foundation also provides scholarship funds to active and
former service members and their families. Since 1987, more than
700 students have received scholarships of between $500 and
$2,500. In 1990, the Fishers began the Fisher House Program,
dedicating more than $15 million to the construction of 28 comfort
homes for families of hospitalized military personnel. The houses
are designed to provide all the comforts of a "home away from
home," and to allow families to support one another through their
difficult times.
In similar efforts, the Fishers provided $1.4 million for the
establishment of a child care center at Camp Pendleton Marine Base
in California, and led in supporting the CAMP program at Lackland
Air Force Base which serves disabled children of military
personnel.
snip
/Quote

Politics is doubtless an issue but it seems you do protest too much.

Keith

"Mike Beede" wrote

You still havent explained how they are supposed to move
a 102ft long aircraft below decks using a 65ft long elevator

I thought one end of the elevator on a carrier was usually
just sticking out into space. Can't you let the nose do likewise?
If the nose isn't long enough (I have no reference that allows
me to tell) even if it's parked diagonally, then you would have
to build something to extend the elevator (which would
presumably be expensive).

Still won't work.
Take a look at the overhead drawing at the bottom of
http://www.intrepidmuseum.org/exhibits_a-blackbird.html
Making the large assumption that this is to scale, and assuming the
starboard/aft square is the starboard elevator, and the pentagon right in
front of the A-12 silhouette is the (now sealed?) centerline elevator. how
would it fit? Both elevators are way too small. The widest part of the wings
look like a really tight fit on the starboard/aft, even diagonally. And a
complete non starter on the centerline.

Here's a pic of an A-4 on (I think) the centerline elevator. Huge difference
in size between an A-4 and the A-12.
http://www.warships1.com/UScv11_Intr...ator-Gogey.jpg

Can't get it belowdecks without cutting some major steel...either ship or
aircraft.

Pete


Regards,

Mike

In article , Clark
stillnospam@me wrote:

Oh BS, just use a crane. Now I don't have info about shoehorning it into the
hanger deck but getting poised to go in is relatively easy with a big-honkin-
crane.

Clark -- I like the "can do" attitude.

All of the carriers that I have been on have had an opening on the
end of the hangar deck. How about using a crane on a barge to lift
the Blackbird up so it can be pulled into the hangar deck from the
aft end of the ship?

-john-

--
================================================== ==================
John A. Weeks III 952-432-2708
Newave Communications http://www.johnweeks.com
================================================== ==================

Peter Twydell wrote in message ...
In article , John A. Weeks III
writes
In article , Peter Twydell
wrote:

Neither this site nor the one mentioned earlier by John Weeks shows that
SR-71A 64-17962 has been at the Imperial War Museum at Duxford since May
2001.

On my "survivors" list, I have had it listed as follows for quite
some time...

"Moved indoors to the new American Air Museum in late 2002/early
2003. Was outdoors at the Imperial War Musuem, and previously in
storage at Air Force Plant 42 in Palmdale, CA."

While the American Air Museum is located on the grounds of the
Imperial War Museum, it is a seperate entity with different
management. You can find the status of all surviving Blackbirds
on my list at http://www.johnweeks.com/sr71. I spend a lot of
time, effort, and money visiting these aircraft and keeping up
with their status.

-john-

Sorry, John, I mixed up your posting with Thomas Paladino's.

I wasn't aware the American War Museum was under different management.
"Wrecks and Relics" doesn't mention that, and many of the aircraft there
were once part of the regular IWM exhibits.

I never saw the SR71 outdoors, only in the Superhangar with the
Sunderland, Vulcan, Lancaster, Mossie, etc. The outer portion of the
starboard LE had been rubbed shiny by all the people wanting to tough
the aircraft!

It's satisfying to have an SR-71 available all year round now, instead
of only once a year at Mildenhall. Nowhere near as good as seeing her
fly, though.

As has been mentioned before, a visit to the IWM is an absolute must for
anyone visiting the UK. (SWMBO and I are looking for a new house at the
moment, and a spot half-way between Duxford and Old Warden would be most
suitable.)


"Wrecks and Relics" doesn't mention that, and many of the aircraft there
were once part of the regular IWM exhibits.

Peter,
What is" Wrecks and Relics "( (I'm guessing that its a publication) Is
it indigenous to only to UK. Do you know where I can get a copy or
hopefully its online?

Thanks
Jeannette

Peter Twydell wrote in message ...
In article , Jeanne
writes
Peter Twydell wrote in message news:o2wxZJAZJgM$EwDr
...
In article , John A. Weeks III
writes
In article , Peter Twydell
wrote:

Neither this site nor the one mentioned earlier by John Weeks shows that
SR-71A 64-17962 has been at the Imperial War Museum at Duxford since May
2001.

On my "survivors" list, I have had it listed as follows for quite
some time...

"Moved indoors to the new American Air Museum in late 2002/early
2003. Was outdoors at the Imperial War Musuem, and previously in
storage at Air Force Plant 42 in Palmdale, CA."

While the American Air Museum is located on the grounds of the
Imperial War Museum, it is a seperate entity with different
management. You can find the status of all surviving Blackbirds
on my list at http://www.johnweeks.com/sr71. I spend a lot of
time, effort, and money visiting these aircraft and keeping up
with their status.

-john-

Sorry, John, I mixed up your posting with Thomas Paladino's.

I wasn't aware the American War Museum was under different management.
"Wrecks and Relics" doesn't mention that, and many of the aircraft there
were once part of the regular IWM exhibits.

I never saw the SR71 outdoors, only in the Superhangar with the
Sunderland, Vulcan, Lancaster, Mossie, etc. The outer portion of the
starboard LE had been rubbed shiny by all the people wanting to tough
the aircraft!

It's satisfying to have an SR-71 available all year round now, instead
of only once a year at Mildenhall. Nowhere near as good as seeing her
fly, though.

As has been mentioned before, a visit to the IWM is an absolute must for
anyone visiting the UK. (SWMBO and I are looking for a new house at the
moment, and a spot half-way between Duxford and Old Warden would be most
suitable.)


"Wrecks and Relics" doesn't mention that, and many of the aircraft there
were once part of the regular IWM exhibits.

Peter,
What is" Wrecks and Relics "( (I'm guessing that its a publication) Is
it indigenous to only to UK. Do you know where I can get a copy or
hopefully its online?

Thanks
Jeannette

It's a UK book published every 2 years, listing museum, retired and
derelict aircraft in the British Isles. Currently in its 18th edition,
the author is Ken Ellis, and it's published by Midland Publishing, ISBN
1857801334. I found it on the Amazon US site at various prices from USD
31 or so.

It's a pretty amazing work, 320 pages of very detailed information. The
SR-71A is on the front cover, shown in the Superhangar I mentioned, with
parts of a Comet, Harrier, Vulcan, Buccaneer and Dove visible.

Amazon UK says:
Wrecks & Relics is a national institution. Each edition is eagerly
awaited and snapped up by enthusiasts, historians, owners and operators
of historic aircraft and curators of aviation collections as the most
trusted and hard-working of reference books in the field of aviation.
Now in its 41st year of publication, the 18th edition marks the author's
29th year at the helm. The book takes the reader on a county-by-county
and province-by-province journey through the fascinating world of
museums, military stores and dumps, 'geriatric' airliners awaiting the
axe, restoration workshops, technical schools, treasures in garages and
barns and much more. Within the wealth of information supplied can be
found commentary, items to raise the eyebrow and myriad 'I never knew
that', expressions! Fully revised and updated, this latest edition has
an array of appendices to take the subject further and the usual
extensive indexing and cross-referencing. The 64 page full colour photo
section is packed with fascinating and obscure subjects which are wide
ranging as ever. Interest in aviation heritage continues to increase -
possession of Wrecks & Relics is the subject's essential companion.


There's also European Wrecks & Relics by Otger van der Kooij, ISBN
1857800850.


Thanks so much! I'll try Amazon and Ebay right now! Sound like
something I would defintley want in my collection.

(Jeanne) wrote in message . com...
Peter Twydell wrote in message ...
In article , Jeanne
writes
Peter Twydell wrote in message news:o2wxZJAZJgM$EwDr
...
In article , John A. Weeks III
writes
In article , Peter Twydell
wrote:

Neither this site nor the one mentioned earlier by John Weeks shows that
SR-71A 64-17962 has been at the Imperial War Museum at Duxford since May
2001.

On my "survivors" list, I have had it listed as follows for quite
some time...

"Moved indoors to the new American Air Museum in late 2002/early
2003. Was outdoors at the Imperial War Musuem, and previously in
storage at Air Force Plant 42 in Palmdale, CA."

While the American Air Museum is located on the grounds of the
Imperial War Museum, it is a seperate entity with different
management. You can find the status of all surviving Blackbirds
on my list at http://www.johnweeks.com/sr71. I spend a lot of
time, effort, and money visiting these aircraft and keeping up
with their status.

-john-

Sorry, John, I mixed up your posting with Thomas Paladino's.

I wasn't aware the American War Museum was under different management.
"Wrecks and Relics" doesn't mention that, and many of the aircraft there
were once part of the regular IWM exhibits.

I never saw the SR71 outdoors, only in the Superhangar with the
Sunderland, Vulcan, Lancaster, Mossie, etc. The outer portion of the
starboard LE had been rubbed shiny by all the people wanting to tough
the aircraft!

It's satisfying to have an SR-71 available all year round now, instead
of only once a year at Mildenhall. Nowhere near as good as seeing her
fly, though.

As has been mentioned before, a visit to the IWM is an absolute must for
anyone visiting the UK. (SWMBO and I are looking for a new house at the
moment, and a spot half-way between Duxford and Old Warden would be most
suitable.)


"Wrecks and Relics" doesn't mention that, and many of the aircraft there
were once part of the regular IWM exhibits.

Peter,
What is" Wrecks and Relics "( (I'm guessing that its a publication) Is
it indigenous to only to UK. Do you know where I can get a copy or
hopefully its online?

Thanks
Jeannette

It's a UK book published every 2 years, listing museum, retired and
derelict aircraft in the British Isles. Currently in its 18th edition,
the author is Ken Ellis, and it's published by Midland Publishing, ISBN
1857801334. I found it on the Amazon US site at various prices from USD
31 or so.

It's a pretty amazing work, 320 pages of very detailed information. The
SR-71A is on the front cover, shown in the Superhangar I mentioned, with
parts of a Comet, Harrier, Vulcan, Buccaneer and Dove visible.

Amazon UK says:
Wrecks & Relics is a national institution. Each edition is eagerly
awaited and snapped up by enthusiasts, historians, owners and operators
of historic aircraft and curators of aviation collections as the most
trusted and hard-working of reference books in the field of aviation.
Now in its 41st year of publication, the 18th edition marks the author's
29th year at the helm. The book takes the reader on a county-by-county
and province-by-province journey through the fascinating world of
museums, military stores and dumps, 'geriatric' airliners awaiting the
axe, restoration workshops, technical schools, treasures in garages and
barns and much more. Within the wealth of information supplied can be
found commentary, items to raise the eyebrow and myriad 'I never knew
that', expressions! Fully revised and updated, this latest edition has
an array of appendices to take the subject further and the usual
extensive indexing and cross-referencing. The 64 page full colour photo
section is packed with fascinating and obscure subjects which are wide
ranging as ever. Interest in aviation heritage continues to increase -
possession of Wrecks & Relics is the subject's essential companion.


There's also European Wrecks & Relics by Otger van der Kooij, ISBN
1857800850.


Thanks so much! I'll try Amazon and Ebay right now! Sound like
something I would defintley want in my collection.

Has anyone been to NYC and seen the A-12 on Intrepid as of late? I'd
love to know your impression of what you've seen.
Jean

"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message ...
"Jeanne" wrote in message
om...
(Jeanne) wrote in message
. com...

Has anyone been to NYC and seen the A-12 on Intrepid as of late? I'd
love to know your impression of what you've seen.
Jean

I just posted a picture I took last year on alt.binaries.pictures.military

It looked in reasonable shape to me

Keith

The photos that I took, at least the recent ones are from May 2003.
were taken on a bright, sunny, morning, so the light was exceptional.
I also used an Olypmus OM-2 with macro and zoom lenses along with 28mm
and 50mm lenses. I would like to know if you noticed if the refueling
hatch and the tail dump hatch were open when you saw her. I have a
book which I complied that shows the state of the aircraft from 1995
through 2003. I was in the position to be able to take these photos
and since I worked on the restoration, I also have detailed photos of
that. I also have detailed notes on #122 up until the time I left
Intrepid. I WISH I could be able to post all those photos so that you
could see all the good work that we had done and how it is now been
undone and left to rack and ruin. If you are interested maybe I can
copy the book and get it to you.

Jean