Cockpit digital cameras?

At 20:12 13 June 2007, Dan G wrote:
On Jun 13, 5:12 pm, Markus Graeber wrote:
I am looking closely at the Canon PowerShot SD800
IS

Just got one of these - I think it's rather good. The
killer feature
is the 28mm wide-angle lens - no other camera the size
has one, and
while it doesn't sound much wider than (say) 35mm it
makes a big
difference to what you can fit in the frame. The image
stabilisation
should also help with zoom shots.

Worth noting that the other new Canon SD - the 900
- has no wide angle
(37mm), and no image stabilisation, trading them for
more megapixels
(which you don't need) and a titanium body (ditto).


Dan


The Canon's seem to have substantially faster shutter
response than most, a very important feature to me.
Several of them, like this one, have image stabilization,
another good feature when you are in a moving platform.
A third feature important to me is a close to the
eye viewfinder. A large number of small cameras require
that you use the big screen on the back of the camera
as the viewfinder. I find those really hard to aim
by comparison. If you like AA batteries you can get
that with a 'slightly' larger camera body. With all
that, look at the Canon A570 IS and the Canon A710
IS. The latter has a 6x optical zoom, both start at
35mm. Both are 7 MP.

Forest

An optical view finder for when the glare is too strong to see the LCD display
and a "landscape" or similar setting that forces the focus to infinity so you
don't accidentally take a perfectly focussed shot of the inside of the canopy or
the string :-)

Forest Baskett wrote:
At 20:12 13 June 2007, Dan G wrote:
On Jun 13, 5:12 pm, Markus Graeber wrote:
I am looking closely at the Canon PowerShot SD800
IS
Just got one of these - I think it's rather good. The
killer feature
is the 28mm wide-angle lens - no other camera the size
has one, and
while it doesn't sound much wider than (say) 35mm it
makes a big
difference to what you can fit in the frame. The image
stabilisation
should also help with zoom shots.

Worth noting that the other new Canon SD - the 900
- has no wide angle
(37mm), and no image stabilisation, trading them for
more megapixels
(which you don't need) and a titanium body (ditto).


Dan


The Canon's seem to have substantially faster shutter
response than most, a very important feature to me.
Several of them, like this one, have image stabilization,
another good feature when you are in a moving platform.
A third feature important to me is a close to the
eye viewfinder. A large number of small cameras require
that you use the big screen on the back of the camera
as the viewfinder. I find those really hard to aim
by comparison. If you like AA batteries you can get
that with a 'slightly' larger camera body. With all
that, look at the Canon A570 IS and the Canon A710
IS. The latter has a 6x optical zoom, both start at
35mm. Both are 7 MP.

Forest

Nyal Williams wrote:
I can't claim any expertise in this subject and I don't
often take pictures from the cockpit. It is worth
comment, however, that you should have as much optical
zoom as you can find and that you should forget the
digital zoom altogether. The digital zoom is especially
grainy.

This is definitely the case. Digital zoom is worse than useless. It does
nothing that you can't do on your computer after you get home, but it
throws away the rest of the picture and you can't get it back. If you
anticipate wanting to "digitally zoom", then just take the picture at
maximum optical zoom and then crop/enlarge it on your computer afterwards.

One other comment: the optical viewfinder on my Minolta
Z-1 is so grainy and grayed out as to make it useless
in the air, even though it works fine on the ground.
There is no way to find a glider in flight either
with the view finder or the ground glass viewer on
the back.

About a week ago I took a couple of nice air-to-air shots of my club's
Grob 103. Or so I thought. I got home and the Grob was nowhere in sight:
the white shape I had seen on my camera's screen was actually a building.
I haven't done this much, but I have a feeling that reliable air-to-air
pictures require the other glider to be so close that it would be
dangerous without a dedicated cameraman.

--
Michael Ash
Rogue Amoeba Software

ucsdcpc schrieb:

a "landscape" or similar setting that forces the focus to
infinity so you don't accidentally take a perfectly focussed shot of the
inside of the canopy or the string :-)

You mean, like this: http://home.balcab.ch/stefan/public/picture_009.jpg

:-)

I use the Casio Exilim. A small package with a good LCD for view finding.
7.2 MP and has features I use while flying; anti-shake, movies, voice
record.


"Bullwinkle" wrote in message
...
Anybody have any suggestions for digital cameras to take in the cockpit?

Looking for:
Small, so easy storage in the cockpit. Shirt pocket compatible. I've also
got a Powershot S50, which is too thick for my purposes, although length
and
width is fine
Decent resolution (5 MP or above?)
Large storage card capacity (1 GB?)

Don't need:
Professional quality (this will primarily be for snapshots)
Interchangeable lenses
Bulk

Anybody already been through the process of evaluating and selecting who
would like to share their experiences?

Thanks,
Bullwinkle

I've had good luck with a Canon SD400. Well, except for putting it in my
shirt pocket and then mashing the LCD under the straps. I turned it on in
flight and the "image" on the LCD looked like the side of a dairy cow.
Still took some good pics. Canon repaired it free of charge. I'll be more
careful in the future.

John Scott

Jack wrote:
Bruce wrote:

I would consider the C-5500 Sport Zoom if I was looking for a rugged,
cheap and cheerful 5Mp camera that can still take great pictures.



Probably what's needed is a camera that is still available today.


Jack
Not necessarily - many digital cameras get very little use. They take as good
pictures a couple of years later, and cost a fraction of new. That way, when it
lands in the mud puddle it hurts less...

The PC style obsession with continually reducing cost means that some of the
older versions are more rugged too.

If you just want something that will take a simple wide angle 5Imp picture there
are cell phones that can do that. No pop up lens, no focus needed (wide angle at
hyper focal distance) and loads of pixels. Some of them even have half way
decent lens quality - a fixed focus lens is easier to make.

Forest Baskett wrote:
At 20:12 13 June 2007, Dan G wrote:

On Jun 13, 5:12 pm, Markus Graeber wrote:

I am looking closely at the Canon PowerShot SD800
IS

Just got one of these - I think it's rather good. The
killer feature
is the 28mm wide-angle lens - no other camera the size
has one, and
while it doesn't sound much wider than (say) 35mm it
makes a big
difference to what you can fit in the frame. The image
stabilisation
should also help with zoom shots.

Worth noting that the other new Canon SD - the 900
- has no wide angle
(37mm), and no image stabilisation, trading them for
more megapixels
(which you don't need) and a titanium body (ditto).


Dan



The Canon's seem to have substantially faster shutter
response than most, a very important feature to me.

Good point - it is probably the worst problem with most of the pocket cameras.
In my limited experience the Sony cameras have a very long delay - wife uses a
Sony DSC-H2 for her work. Great for portraits, and landscapes, disastrous for
sport.
Canon are doing great things with their cameras at present - certainly have a
better line of pocket cameras than Nikon.



Several of them, like this one, have image stabilization,
another good feature when you are in a moving platform.
A third feature important to me is a close to the
eye viewfinder. A large number of small cameras require
that you use the big screen on the back of the camera
as the viewfinder. I find those really hard to aim
by comparison. If you like AA batteries you can get
that with a 'slightly' larger camera body. With all
that, look at the Canon A570 IS and the Canon A710
IS. The latter has a 6x optical zoom, both start at
35mm. Both are 7 MP.

Forest

Martin Gregorie wrote:
Bullwinkle wrote:

Anybody have any suggestions for digital cameras to take in the cockpit?

Looking for: Small, so easy storage in the cockpit. Shirt pocket
compatible. I've also
got a Powershot S50, which is too thick for my purposes, although
length and
width is fine
Decent resolution (5 MP or above?)
Large storage card capacity (1 GB?)

Don't need:
Professional quality (this will primarily be for snapshots)
Interchangeable lenses
Bulk

Anybody already been through the process of evaluating and selecting who
would like to share their experiences?

I'm interested in this too, but I'd suggest another couple of things
that would be nice:

- no pop-out lens. A camera without a pop-out lens can be mounted on
the canopy rail close to the canopy without fear of the lens
ramming the perspex and damaging something.

- low power consumption and without an automatic 'off timer' or with
one than can be disabled.

If you don't mind dropping to a mere 3 Mpixels, I notice that Nikon
Coolpix 775s are selling cheaply on eBay. It looks like a suitable
camera for use in a glider, though having handled one, they are almost
too small for easy one-handed operation and they do have a pop-out lens.


If you want a new model that does not have the pop up lens look at the Olympus
Stylus 720 / 770SW

They are resistant to the kind of abuse that will leave many of their
competitors in expensive kit form. Particularly useful is low temperature
capability.

The 770SW even has a manometer function for enriching your EXIF information with
altitude.

Limited optical zoom range because of the internal movement design, but you
can't have everything.

The perfect camera for you - if you can accept the compromises and cost?

Bullwinkle wrote:
Anybody have any suggestions for digital cameras to take in the cockpit?

Looking for:
Small, so easy storage in the cockpit. Shirt pocket compatible. I've also
got a Powershot S50, which is too thick for my purposes, although length and
width is fine
Decent resolution (5 MP or above?)
Large storage card capacity (1 GB?)

Don't need:
Professional quality (this will primarily be for snapshots)
Interchangeable lenses
Bulk

Anybody already been through the process of evaluating and selecting who
would like to share their experiences?

Thanks,
Bullwinkle

Go look at

http://www.imaging-resource.com

They have a lot of categorised reviews of cameras including point and shoot.
Examples of what you are looking for. No pop out lens, 7MP etc...

Olympus.
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PROD...W/OS770SWA.HTM

Nikon.
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PROD...0C/CPS50CA.HTM


Also consider? (pop out lens)

Panasonic.
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/FX30/FX30A.HTM

Canon (Nice lens)
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/A710/A710A.HTM

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/A550/A550A.HTM

If you are wanting to take pictures of other gliders from the cockpit you will
want a 200mm equivalent lens...

Read - http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech.htm for interesting info about digital
photography.

He has a Spring 2007 camera guide out.

He is partly to blame for me shelling out for a D80 to replace my F3 - I have to
take responsibility for still taking poor pictures.