Ground control vs. clearance delivery for VFR

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Roy Smith writes:

The general rule is that anything that involves generating a flight
strip (IFR clearance or VFR flight following) should go through CD.
Only if an airport has no published CD freq (or if the ATIS says you
should) that you should ask the ground controller for this.

Does a VFR departure through Class B or C generate a flight strip?


Your fjukktardedness is boundless.

In any case, it doesn't matter. You will never fly.

Not VFR, not ifr. Not through class B, not through class C. Not on a
plane, nor on a train, not here nor there or anywhere


Bertie

B A R R Y wrote:

Should I have asked for this service via the clearance delivery
frequency as in IFR, or was I asking for a service not normally
available? I can't find the answer in the 2007 Jeppesen FAR-AIM.

In hindsight, I'm guessing I should have been on clearance delivery.

I always listen to ATIS before doing anything. Every airport I
have ever been to will instruct you to either call clearance
delivery or ground for all departures.

On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 16:58:02 GMT, kontiki
wrote:


I always listen to ATIS before doing anything. Every airport I
have ever been to will instruct you to either call clearance
delivery or ground for all departures.

There was obviously no such instruction in this case.

For ha-ha's, I just called the PVD ATIS @ (401)737-3215 (ain't
unlimited LD great? G) and got information Echo. No mention of
calling ground or CD initially, unless you want delay information
going to Newark.

I've heard ATIS broadcasts at Delta fields that remind pilots to
contact ground on xxx.x (vs. calling the tower to taxi), but I've
never heard an instruction to contact clearance delivery first. Can
you remember where you've heard it?

I also always get ATIS information before an initial call up from
parking. I didn't think calling without it was an option. I don't
even move on a non-towered field without the ASOS/AWOS. G

Barry,

Regarding who we should request flight following or traffic advisories
from...

4-1-17 5. (b) The AIM refers to "radar traffic information" and not flight
following or traffic advisories in this section.
Being an anal CFI and AGI, I went through this a few years back and thought
that the sensible thing to do was ask clearance delivery for the service. I
called the local Class C tower supervisor and asked him what was correct. He
said to ask clearance delivery. I showed him the reference in the AIM
instructing pilots to notify ground control. His response, notify clearance
delivery.
I go to a different Class C and ask clearance delivery for flight following.
Their response, you have it automatically. Many facilities seem to have
their own local procedures. As long as it does not affect safety, no big
deal. The bottom line, do not let ATC intimidate you. If you are not sure of
something, ask for clarification. If the controller is having a bad day
because you are trying to do things by the book, he will get over it.
Controllers are our friends.

GDY

In article ,
Roy Smith wrote:

In article ,
B A R R Y wrote:

My local Delta base (HFD) will contact nearby BDL TRACON and obtain a
squawk code for VFR flight following or traffic advisories. This
service is "advertised" on the ATIS and is requested from ground
control on initial call up by departures. Ground calls you back with
a code and the proper departure frequency, similar to an IFR
clearance.

Last week, I was at a Charlie airport (PVD) during a very quiet
period. Upon calling ground with the usual VFR information, I also
requested a VFR flight following to my destination. This was the
first time I'd tried this outside of HFD. The controller mumbled
something unintellible, along with "since it's slow", and to stand by.
He honored my request and returned with my code and the current
departure frequency. My flight following commenced automatically as I
was handed off to that area's TRACON from the tower.

Should I have asked for this service via the clearance delivery
frequency as in IFR, or was I asking for a service not normally
available? I can't find the answer in the 2007 Jeppesen FAR-AIM.

In hindsight, I'm guessing I should have been on clearance delivery.

The general rule is that anything that involves generating a flight strip
(IFR clearance or VFR flight following) should go through CD. Only if an
airport has no published CD freq (or if the ATIS says you should) that you
should ask the ground controller for this.

It's a good general rule, but it's broken in places, like (one of my)
home bases, Oakland (KOAK), which is a busy Class C under SFO's Class B,
and where you typically bypass clearance for ground if it's a VFR
departure. You just call ground with what's effectively a combined
clearance and ground taxi call, and any special requests (like a class B
clearance). Unfortunately even though there's a separate (and often very
busy) clearance frequency, the call-ground-first thing isn't typically
mentioned in the relevant ATIS, so not everyone knows, but calling
clearance is harmless -- you'll just be told to switch to ground, if you
can get a word in edgeways between Southwest calls for IFR clearances
from the south field.

At Monterey (KMRY) just down the coast, you call clearance first, unless
it specifically says not to on ATIS. At my other home base, Hayward
(KHWD), which is a busy class D under Oakland's class C (under ...), you
call ground for VFR flight following, but clearance for IFR clearances
(which are usually given on ground frequency while taxiing, but never
mind...). This isn't usually mentioned on ATIS anywhere either.

I've learned to simply call clearance if it's listed and ask them who to
call if I'm at a place I don't know; otherwise I call ground and ask
them. But then I'm guessing my way-out-of-town Australian accent
probably helps smooth things over in ways not always available to
everyone :-).

Hamish

On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 14:42:54 -0400, "Gordy"
wrote:

Controllers are our friends.

I totally agree! I simply strive to make my spam can presence as
inobtrusive and professional as possible, and the folks here are
always a great help.

I'm lucky to be home based in a very GA friendly area. I feel the
BDL TRACON, along with the Windsor Locks FSDO, are extremely easy to
deal with, always willing to help us help them. Having grown up here,
I find NY, BOS, and PVD just as easy to deal with, as I don't find
people who are "direct and to the point" rude. G

I'd just like to do the right thing.

On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 14:42:54 -0400, Gordy wrote:

The bottom line, do not let ATC intimidate you. If you are
not sure of something, ask for clarification. If the controller is having
a bad day because you are trying to do things by the book, he will get
over it. Controllers are our friends.

I erred in contacting Cape Approach (while airborne) for a clearance
recently. The controller - correctly - directed me to the CD frequency.
I should have known better.

He was reasonably friendly about it, explaining that he didn't have time
to read a clearance. That was far more than I needed; just the reminder
to contact CD would have been enough.

It's absolutely true that - with a few exceptions - ATC really is
there to help. It's a shame that some pilots never get as comfortable
dealing with ATC as they could be.

I'll even get flight following for maneuver practice in our local practice
area. Why doesn't everyone; it's just an extra pair of eyes and there's
no extra charge (at least for now {8^) ?

- Andrew

"Andrew Gideon" wrote in message
news

I erred in contacting Cape Approach (while airborne) for a clearance
recently. The controller - correctly - directed me to the CD frequency.
I should have known better.

He was reasonably friendly about it, explaining that he didn't have time
to read a clearance. That was far more than I needed; just the reminder
to contact CD would have been enough.


Where's the error? If you're airborne and requesting a previously filed
popup CD is not the proper frequency to call.

On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 11:36:02 -0400, Andrew Gideon
wrote:

I'll even get flight following for maneuver practice in our local practice
area. Why doesn't everyone; it's just an extra pair of eyes and there's
no extra charge (at least for now {8^) ?

I always wondered that myself. An extra bonus is the occasional
humor heard on the radio. G

FWIW, I was back a PVD last week, and clearance delivery was happy to
hook me up with a FF on the ground. Once they gave me an IFR-style
VFR departure clearance, I just needed to tell ground that I had
picked up a VFR departure clearance, as they questioned why I wasn't
squawking 1200 on initial call-up. For those who don't go there,
Providence is one of those airports that requests transponders "on"
while taxiing, vs. switching it on just prior to departure.

B A R R Y wrote:
For those who don't go there,
Providence is one of those airports that requests transponders "on"
while taxiing, vs. switching it on just prior to departure.


There's never a reason to have the transponder on any other setting than
ALT, unless otherwise directed by ATC.