Temporarily removing fuel and replacing it into the same aircraft

On Jul 23, 12:46 pm, Michael
wrote:
On Jul 23, 12:33 pm, B A R R Y wrote:

I've been told this is a violation. The person who tells me this can't
cite a FAR, and I can't find one in my own search.

The world is full of 'experts' who will tell you that something is
against the FAR's. When pressed, they will tell you to call the FSDO
if you don't believe them. Those experts can't ever seem to quote the
relevant FAR. They are best ignored.

There is no such regulation in the Part 91 world.

Michael


I have to agree with Michael, there are a lot of experts who know
rules that don't exist.

FSDO's aren't the experts and are often the source of such myths.

Locally we have had a FSDO inspector tell us we could not carry
passengers while towing gliders. He reversed this after I inquired to
he and is boss as to where this rule came from.

Recently another FSDO inspector told a local 141 flight school that
all the gas caps on their aircraft needed to be painted Red. I am
still trying to figure out which hat or book he might have pulled that
rule out of. Maybe someone here knows?

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL

"B A R R Y" wrote in message
. net...
Does anyone know of a FAR that prohibits removing fuel, avgas in this
case, and then putting it back into the same plane? The plane is flown
for part 91 service only.

Examples:

1.) The plane is 50 pounds overweight for conditions. 10 gallons is
siphoned out into a clean, single-purpose, approved for gasoline
container. The sealed container is stored in a safe place. 2-3 hours
later, upon completing the trip and returning to the field, I pour it back
into the tank.

2.) I want to calibrate a fuel dipstick, so I remove a gallon at a time
while taking readings. After I read the tank, I return the fuel to the
tank.

I've been told this is a violation. The person who tells me this can't
cite a FAR, and I can't find one in my own search.

I hope it is not a violation, I've had to do this at remote mountain
airstrips
for years. I have seen tanks calibrated(Sticks & Gauges) in an approved
shop.


Al G

Greater likelihood is that you may be violating an AIRPORT rule. If your
field does not permit self-fueling, then the activity you note would
probably be considered a violation. But FAR's???? Naahh !
"Al G" wrote in message
...

"B A R R Y" wrote in message
. net...
Does anyone know of a FAR that prohibits removing fuel, avgas in this
case, and then putting it back into the same plane? The plane is flown
for part 91 service only.

Examples:

1.) The plane is 50 pounds overweight for conditions. 10 gallons is
siphoned out into a clean, single-purpose, approved for gasoline
container. The sealed container is stored in a safe place. 2-3 hours
later, upon completing the trip and returning to the field, I pour it
back into the tank.

2.) I want to calibrate a fuel dipstick, so I remove a gallon at a time
while taking readings. After I read the tank, I return the fuel to the
tank.

I've been told this is a violation. The person who tells me this can't
cite a FAR, and I can't find one in my own search.

I hope it is not a violation, I've had to do this at remote mountain
airstrips
for years. I have seen tanks calibrated(Sticks & Gauges) in an approved
shop.


Al G

An FAA ops inspector at HQ once gave me a list of all of the regulatory
agencies pilots have to answer to. One of them was the EPA. If there is any
prohibition against doing what you suggest you will find it in EPA regs, not
FARs. The FARs are only the tip of the iceberg.

Bob Gardner

"B A R R Y" wrote in message
. net...
Does anyone know of a FAR that prohibits removing fuel, avgas in this
case, and then putting it back into the same plane? The plane is flown
for part 91 service only.

Examples:

1.) The plane is 50 pounds overweight for conditions. 10 gallons is
siphoned out into a clean, single-purpose, approved for gasoline
container. The sealed container is stored in a safe place. 2-3 hours
later, upon completing the trip and returning to the field, I pour it back
into the tank.

2.) I want to calibrate a fuel dipstick, so I remove a gallon at a time
while taking readings. After I read the tank, I return the fuel to the
tank.

I've been told this is a violation. The person who tells me this can't
cite a FAR, and I can't find one in my own search.

Pilots frequently say "I can't find it in the regulations" after limiting
their search to Parts 1, 61, 67, 91, and (occasionally) 119/135. An FAA ops
inspector at HQ once gave me a list of all of the agencies whose regulations
impact pilots. I no longer have the list, but as I recall there were about
20. We know about the NTSB Part 830 accident/incident regs because they are
on the knowledge exams, and we know that there are National Park Service,
Bureau of Land Management, and Interior Department regs affecting both
airspace and landing areas because they show up on sectionals and things
like the Grand Canyon SFAR. What I am leading up to is a guess that the
Environmental Protection Agency may very well have a reg that speaks to the
operation you propose. The airport management and/or the governmental entity
operating the airport might have local regulations on the subject.

Bottom line is that you can't just look to the FARs when contemplating an
action.

Bob Gardner

"B A R R Y" wrote in message
. net...
Does anyone know of a FAR that prohibits removing fuel, avgas in this
case, and then putting it back into the same plane? The plane is flown
for part 91 service only.

Examples:

1.) The plane is 50 pounds overweight for conditions. 10 gallons is
siphoned out into a clean, single-purpose, approved for gasoline
container. The sealed container is stored in a safe place. 2-3 hours
later, upon completing the trip and returning to the field, I pour it back
into the tank.

2.) I want to calibrate a fuel dipstick, so I remove a gallon at a time
while taking readings. After I read the tank, I return the fuel to the
tank.

I've been told this is a violation. The person who tells me this can't
cite a FAR, and I can't find one in my own search.

Sorry about the double post...senior moment.

Bob

"Bob Gardner" wrote in message
. ..
An FAA ops inspector at HQ once gave me a list of all of the regulatory
agencies pilots have to answer to. One of them was the EPA. If there is
any prohibition against doing what you suggest you will find it in EPA
regs, not FARs. The FARs are only the tip of the iceberg.

Bob Gardner

"B A R R Y" wrote in message
. net...
Does anyone know of a FAR that prohibits removing fuel, avgas in this
case, and then putting it back into the same plane? The plane is flown
for part 91 service only.

Examples:

1.) The plane is 50 pounds overweight for conditions. 10 gallons is
siphoned out into a clean, single-purpose, approved for gasoline
container. The sealed container is stored in a safe place. 2-3 hours
later, upon completing the trip and returning to the field, I pour it
back into the tank.

2.) I want to calibrate a fuel dipstick, so I remove a gallon at a time
while taking readings. After I read the tank, I return the fuel to the
tank.

I've been told this is a violation. The person who tells me this can't
cite a FAR, and I can't find one in my own search.

On Mon, 23 Jul 2007 12:52:18 -0700, Brian wrote:

I have to agree with Michael, there are a lot of experts who know rules
that don't exist.

There's even a FAR which states this. I don't recall which, off hand, but
you could get it by calling your local FSDO.

- Andrew

: Recently another FSDO inspector told a local 141 flight school that
: all the gas caps on their aircraft needed to be painted Red. I am
: still trying to figure out which hat or book he might have pulled that
: rule out of. Maybe someone here knows?

Perhaps the same theorem we used in a math course in graduate school.... the "CRE."

Complete-Rectal-Extraction

;-)

-Cory

--

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss, Ph.D., PPSEL-IA *
* Electrical Engineering *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************

In rec.aviation.owning pgbnh wrote:
: Greater likelihood is that you may be violating an AIRPORT rule. If your
: field does not permit self-fueling, then the activity you note would
: probably be considered a violation. But FAR's???? Naahh !
: "Al G" wrote in message
: ...

My friendly-neighborhood AIRPORT manager tried to mandate no self-fueling of aircraft shortly after we shelled out just
shy of $2000 for an autogas STC for our PA-28-180. I pointed him in the direction of the regulations regarding restrictions on
public airports that accept federal funding. Included in those (can't find the link at the moment) is a requirement that pilots
can fuel their own aircraft for non-commercial use. Non-issue after that.

-Cory


--

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss, Ph.D., PPSEL-IA *
* Electrical Engineering *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************

Some FBOs have a policy that prohibits fuel that has been removed from
an aircraft from going into any other aircraft. They'll use the
"used" fuel for AGE (ground equipment) but won't pump it back into an
airplane for liability reasons (could have become contaminated in the
airplane they took it from, perhaps?). I don't know of anything that
prohibits a private owner from defueling his part 91 aircraft and
refueling it with the properly stored "used" fuel. Common sense
requires the fuel to be kept free of contamination and proper safety
measures utilized in the refueling process.