req: CFI job advice

"Jim Burns" wrote:
And take into account weather cycles. Will you have anything to
produce $ if the weather turns to pot for several weeks?

Since he is the Portland Oregon area, that will definitely happen during
the winter months.

BTW: Most FBOs require that you carry your own liability insurance.
That can be an additional expense and something you want to ask about.

On Aug 30, 12:56 pm, "El Maximo" wrote:
"Gattman" wrote in message

...



Those were the exact sorts of tips I was looking for. Thanks!

One more note. Go ask a few of the CFIs how many hours they REALLY get paid
for. Being the skeptic that I am, I wouldn't believe the owner who says that
the CFIs fly 40 hours per week. That means the planes are in for 100 hour
inspections every 2 and a half week.

What is a pay-hour? An hour that you are there, or an hour that's billed?

Bingo. I always hear CFI's brag about flying 120+ hours a month, but I
seriously doubt that. Where I work, the weather is VFR just about 350
days a year. There hasn't been a weather related cancellation since
about February. That said, I hardly ever see 80 hours a week, a bit
more if you count in ground school and simulator hours. I work just
about 7 days a week, and I barely have time to sit down and catch my
breath. Its not uncommon I start at 8AM and end at 8PM (or later) with
only 5 or 6 hours of actual billed hours.

For instance, yesterday I was going to do a night flight. When me and
my student got there, the plane wasn't fueled up, so I had to walk
over to the hanger, start up the fuel truck, drive over to the ramp
and put fuel in. As I'm doing that, the student preflights. We get it
started, taxi up to the ramp, and the left mag is running way rough.
So we taxi back. I go inside, get another plane and start the whole
process all over again, with the fuel truck and all. Then when we got
to our destination, we had to fuel up again, which is off the Hobbs as
well.

All said and done, the 4 hour flight ended up taking 6 hours to
complete. Thats fairly typical. I guess if you freelance, you can
charge the student for all that time, but if you're freelance, you're
going to have to deal with a lot more "back scene" stuff anyways...
Just something to think about.

"Jim Logajan" wrote in message
.. .
"Jim Burns" wrote:
And take into account weather cycles. Will you have anything to
produce $ if the weather turns to pot for several weeks?

Since he is the Portland Oregon area, that will definitely happen during
the winter months.

Yep. Even on CAVU days there can still be a 40mph gorge wind. One of
the factors I'm considering.
-c

Flight instructing is like being a grad student or post-doc: lousy pay
and hours but you're building experience to something better. Or
consider it as pursuing a hobby for free. The point is that a CFI
rarely can make a career at instructing.

If that works with your situation, great. I'm just saying don't have
some starry-eyed notion of nobly teaching young lads and lassies the
essence of flight while supporting a family. But you don't sound like
a dreamer in your OP.
--
When I was a kid my favorite relative was Uncle Caveman. After
school we'd all go play in his cave, and every once in a while he
would eat one of us. It wasn't until later that I found out that
Uncle Caveman was a bear.
- Jack Handey

Robert M. Gary wrote:

On Aug 30, 12:56 pm, "El Maximo" wrote:

"Gattman" wrote in message

...




Those were the exact sorts of tips I was looking for. Thanks!

One more note. Go ask a few of the CFIs how many hours they REALLY get paid
for. Being the skeptic that I am, I wouldn't believe the owner who says that
the CFIs fly 40 hours per week. That means the planes are in for 100 hour
inspections every 2 and a half week.

What is a pay-hour? An hour that you are there, or an hour that's billed?


I have never heard of an FBO paying CFIs for the hours you are there.
You get paid a percentage of the hours that are billed directly as
your hours. If you bill the customer for 1 hour of ground you get paid
for 1 hour, if you call it 1/2 hour since you were talking about
Hooters part of the time, you get paid 1/2 hour. A lot of CFIs are
afraid to charge for the hours (especially ground ) that they work.
BTW: Some FBOs are easier to work with than others. FBOs that don't
tightly run the show often have situations where the previous CFI is
1/2 hour late returning the plane so you lose a 1/2 hour of pay. Other
shops will dress you down if you bring the plane back 1/2 hour after
the time you booked it to be back.

-Robert, CFII

Try to show ways that the FBO can use you during off hours. You maybe
can so software/network support, mow grass, help mechanic, write
ads/promotional, clean the restrooms, etc. But there are lots of jobs
that often just need to be asked for.

buttman wrote:
That said, I hardly ever see 80 hours a week, a bit
more if you count in ground school and simulator hours.

That's pretty good for time building. I do have one question for you though.

Do your students know that you are known as "buttman" on USENET?

"BillJ" wrote in message
...

Try to show ways that the FBO can use you during off hours. You maybe can
so software/network support, mow grass, help mechanic, write
ads/promotional, clean the restrooms, etc. But there are lots of jobs that
often just need to be asked for.

Brilliant! I'm a router/network geek, system administrator, project
manager and technical writer. I should be able to come up with something.

It's off-topic to explain what I'm up against here, but this is all very
useful. Thanks!

-c

On Aug 30, 9:40 am, "Gattman" wrote:
Hey, all. I'm looking for a bit of wisdom here. Background is, I'm a
system administrator whose job just dissolved in a corporate buyout and,
after being promised that if I came over I'd keep my salary and title, I was
sleazed into a 30% paycut (given a single day to either sign it or hit the
road) and a new position that they've literally lie to interviewees to fill.
If you've seen Office Space, that's beyond the deal. To keep it short I'll
just say I'm done there as soon as I find another way to feed and insure my
family.

Yesterday at the FBO three miles from my house I overheard the manager and
chief instructor send a potential student across town, about 30 miles, to
Hillsboro because there's already a student waiting list due to an extreme
lack of instructors. The chief pilot said "It's going to be a hard winter
because we don't have -any- available instructors out here."

Their website has indicated for the last month that they're hiring CFIIs,
but they told me at this point they're hiring CFIs who intend to add the
second I. Basically, they're desperate (I did not identify myself as a
CFI-student.) Despite the 50% cut in pay, my internal ADF is pointing
right to their front door.

I have a $600/mo house payment, a one year old and a wife who will be out of
college (second degree, already getting lucrative job offers) in the spring.
We have enough money saved to get by until then, but before I approach them
for a full-time job (they claim instructors work 40-50 hour weeks) I'm
hoping to find out what questions I should ask them and if there's anything
I need to know. I finished my Commercial in June and I'm ready for the
FOI. My wife agrees that my current work situation cannot hold out until
she graduates.

Any advice or hazards I should beware of?

-chris
CP-ASEL-IA

I know Hillsboro. Check out the time sheets to see what hours the CFIs
are really getting paid for. And be prepared to carry your own
insurance.

I doubt that you could make enough to cover your house payment and
support your family, although a few manage to do it. The thing is,
right now the airlines are grabbing people with only a couple hundred
hours.

If being a CFI is so great, ask Hillsboro why they have an instructor
shortage.

"Other shops will dress you down if you bring the plane back 1/2 hour after
the time you booked it to be back."

1/2 hour late and they chew you out? LOL. Back in the late 60's when I was a
student at Zahn's (Amityville, NY), I would spend over 1 hour on a Sunday,
waiting for my 11AM "appointment" to show up. And you couldn't reserve a
particluar Cherokee 140, or J-3. You took what you got . : (

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Aug 30, 12:56 pm, "El Maximo" wrote:
"Gattman" wrote in message

...



Those were the exact sorts of tips I was looking for. Thanks!

One more note. Go ask a few of the CFIs how many hours they REALLY get
paid
for. Being the skeptic that I am, I wouldn't believe the owner who says
that
the CFIs fly 40 hours per week. That means the planes are in for 100
hour
inspections every 2 and a half week.

What is a pay-hour? An hour that you are there, or an hour that's
billed?

I have never heard of an FBO paying CFIs for the hours you are there.
You get paid a percentage of the hours that are billed directly as
your hours. If you bill the customer for 1 hour of ground you get paid
for 1 hour, if you call it 1/2 hour since you were talking about
Hooters part of the time, you get paid 1/2 hour. A lot of CFIs are
afraid to charge for the hours (especially ground ) that they work.
BTW: Some FBOs are easier to work with than others. FBOs that don't
tightly run the show often have situations where the previous CFI is
1/2 hour late returning the plane so you lose a 1/2 hour of pay. Other
shops will dress you down if you bring the plane back 1/2 hour after
the time you booked it to be back.

-Robert, CFII