It's that time of year again.

Richard Lamb wrote in message I meant to try the trim augmented loop...

I've died in the sim only once, maybe. We hit dirt in level flight and under
control, but with a 1500 fpm sink rate. It may have been survivable. I
figured out what the problem was but I took too long. If we were in a B-737
sim, I'd have instinctively de-powered the rudder hydraulics. We were in a
DC-9 sim.

And then there was that time I was backing up a Metroliner with reverse
thrust, and fell off the aircraft carrier. Fortunately, I can simulate
swimming.

D.

On Thu, 28 Aug 2003 02:51:51 GMT, "Capt. Doug"
wrote:

Barnyard BOb wrote in message Next time you do the loop.....
pull 2.5 g's IMMEDIATELY upon entry
at redline and stay with it, if you didn't.

That's were I screwed up. The elevator isn't nearly as effective as the
horizontal stabilizer. I should have run full nose up trim in addition to
pulling back. Tyhen I'd have gone over the top before the airspeed
dissipated, I think. I'll have to wait for next year's checkride to find
out.

What are you guys flying loops in? In the G-III you enter at 335 mph
and 4.5 Gs on the pull up. If you push to 350 MPH you can do a
vertical 8, (one loop above the other with a half roll at the crossing
point) IF you keep it symetrical and don't make any mistakes.

Boy, but that sucker has vertical penetration.

Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
www.rogerhalstead.com
N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)

D.

That's were I screwed up. The elevator isn't nearly as effective as the
horizontal stabilizer. I should have run full nose up trim in addition to
pulling back. Tyhen I'd have gone over the top before the airspeed
dissipated, I think. I'll have to wait for next year's checkride to find
out.

What are you guys flying loops in? In the G-III you enter at 335 mph
and 4.5 Gs on the pull up. If you push to 350 MPH you can do a
vertical 8, (one loop above the other with a half roll at the crossing
point) IF you keep it symetrical and don't make any mistakes.

Boy, but that sucker has vertical penetration.

Roger Halstead
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Geez, Roger.

Can't fault you for bragging on the G-III, but...
Your 350 mph bird is pretty doggy.

In this specific case....
Entering a loop at mach .8 is a piece of cake.
Vertical penetration is non issue.

We were discussing a DC-9 simulator. ---

BTW --
Vertical penetration may not be a good thing....
if your pointed straight DOWN.


Barnyard BOb --

Badwater Bill wrote:

So, 500 feet AGL is the recommended altitude for flying
helicopters x-country. You're above the wires but low enough you can
get that contraption on the ground quick. Flying that low and slow is
always fun.

Flying the Mooney 500 feet was loads of fun too. ;-)))

Warren

Badwater Bill wrote in message How about it Doug. Are each one of
your flights in that DC-9 different and challenging for various
reasons?

I may not be the right person to ask this question. I've become jaded.
Dealing with adverse weather, low fuel, lengthy delays, a**hole colleagues,
and bitchy passengers in the heavily regulated airline life is mundane
compared to my exploits outside airline flying. It's a good job, but not
very challenging. I enjoy it because it's boring. It's low stress. It's a
time to relax. Some days are a bitch, but that's a rarity.

No. It's mostly boring. I did 3 legs today ending up at LaGuardia. They all
departed on time despite a squall line passing over New York. The most
exciting thing was a freaked out woman passenger. We were climbing out of
LaGuardia through some heavy precipitation on our second leg and turned on
the ignitors. The ignitors passed some rf into the PA making a beeping
sound. She just knew it was a bomb. We got a good laugh out of it.

One of the reasons I enjoy this group is because I don't have to pretend
here. I'm a cowboy. I've done things with airplanes that depended on my seat
of the pants instincts and some grace from the supreme being. I can't talk
about those things around my airline colleagues because they would be quick
to label me a cowboy. Then I'd be type-cast as being a loose cannon or
dangerous. That's not good for an airline pilot. Airline pilots must
conform. We must be boring. No stigma. Hanging with the knuckle dragging
porch monkeys in this group is refreshing. Heck, once in a while I learn
something too.

D.

Could that have contributed to the accelerated jackscrew wear on the Alaska?

--
Dan D.



..
"Capt. Doug" wrote in message
...
Barnyard BOb wrote in message We were discussing a DC-9 simulator.

Did I mention anything about a simulator? :-)

It was an MD-82 simulator. I entered the loop at 335 knots and take-off
power. The dang thing didn't come over the top like I thought it would and
bled off airspeed much quicker than I expected. I suspect it's because the
elevator is too small for aerobatics. Same thing for landing. If you get 5
knots below ref speed and try to flare by pulling the yoke back, nothing
happens except that the main wheels slam into the concrete rather firmly.
The horizontal stab makes up most of the whale tail on the -80. The stab is
much more powerful than the elevator. I flare with trim and get greasers
about 70% of the time.

D.

Barnyard BOb wrote in message We were discussing a DC-9 simulator.

Did I mention anything about a simulator? :-)
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Sorta. g
Here's what I had to go on.

Quoted excerpt....

"I've died in the sim only once, maybe. We hit dirt in level flight
and under control, but with a 1500 fpm sink rate. It may have been
survivable. I figured out what the problem was but I took too long. If
we were in a B-737 sim, I'd have instinctively de-powered the rudder
hydraulics. We were in a DC-9 sim." - D.


Barnyard BOb --

"Capt. Doug" wrote in message ...

MD-82 elevator is too small for aerobatics. Same thing for landing. If you get 5
knots below ref speed and try to flare by pulling the yoke back, nothing
happens except that the main wheels slam into the concrete rather firmly.

Ah, that explains that jaw-rattling, overhead-compartment-opening
landing I survived a while back. Either that or the pilot had just
got back from his Naval Reserve carrier quals.

C

Blueskies wrote in message Could that have contributed to the accelerated
jackscrew wear on the Alaska?

Not directly, but once the stab let go, it was all over because the elevator
can't overpower the stab. I believe the NTSB final report is out. It is
ingrained into us in ground school now that we try to fix a jammed stab only
once and then leave it alone.

If during take-off, the stab is set outside a narrow band, the elevator will
be overpowered. Pulling full back on the yoke won't rotate the nose or,
vice-versa, pushing pull forward on the yoke won't keep the nose from
rotating early, depending on which way the stab is set outside of the narrow
band. You can trim to correct the situation, but you may not have enough
time. It can ruin your day.

D.

(Badwater Bill) wrote in news:3f53a95a.871539343
@news.west.earthlink.net:

Kind of interesting in a way, today I'm going IFR in a Cessna P-210 to
Denver and back. I'll just sit there with the flight director on and
listen to music. I'll pressurize to the maximum differential then
raise the altitude when I get near Denver. That will be about my only
task since nowadays, I simply file GPS direct and let the flight
director take me there. The biggest problem I have is staying awake
in airplanes like that.

I suppose you're going to bull**** us again that you own that P-210? No one
is buying that story any more, big boy.

LP