You mean I have to TALK to ATC? - long

Jay Honeck writes:

Here we are, 13 years later, and apparently little has changed. We've
got a navigation system (GPS) that is accurate to within a meter, and
yet the entire system is still built around VORs, which is accurate to
within...a lot. (Anyone know how accurate it is to be flying a VOR
radial say, 30 miles from the VOR station? Is it a mile? A half
mile? 1000 feet? I have no idea...)

I suggest it's a case of accepting bothersome but known and well-quantified
risks rather than accepting unknown and unquantified risks. The behavior of
VORs is well understood; the potential problems with GPS are not.

But I do know this: In the real world of (relatively unregulated) VFR
flying, GPS rules. The fact that the IFR system hasn't completed the
change-over in a decade is just another example of how glacial
progress can be in aviation.

In IFR, your life depends on the instruments; in VFR, it does not. So VFR can
afford to take risks with instruments that would be potentially deadly with
IFR.

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Jay Honeck writes:

Here we are, 13 years later, and apparently little has changed.
We've got a navigation system (GPS) that is accurate to within a
meter, and yet the entire system is still built around VORs, which is
accurate to within...a lot. (Anyone know how accurate it is to be
flying a VOR radial say, 30 miles from the VOR station? Is it a
mile? A half mile? 1000 feet? I have no idea...)

I suggest it's a case of accepting bothersome but known and
well-quantified risks rather than accepting unknown and unquantified
risks. The behavior of VORs is well understood; the potential
problems with GPS are not.

But I do know this: In the real world of (relatively unregulated) VFR
flying, GPS rules. The fact that the IFR system hasn't completed the
change-over in a decade is just another example of how glacial
progress can be in aviation.

In IFR, your life depends on the instruments;

You are an idiot.


You don't fly,

Your life doesn't depend on instruments you lying sack of ****.


Bertie

Airbus wrote:
In article .com,
says...


The trip back was pretty cool. I opted to fly the VOR all the way into SYI,
I'm surprised to see that primary students are still flying VOR
radials. I thought that had gone the way of ADFs and light beacons,


And what way have those gone?
NDB's are still in widespread use, and impetus to decommission them has slowed
in recent years. They're also very handy in many situations.

As for VOR's, and VOR/DME airways,they still represent the backbone of the IFR
route system, and cannot be supplanted by random/direct routes anytime soon.

There's even talk of bringing LORAN-C back into the picture . . .



Wait till some huge solar flare knocks out the GPS network
for days

The whole situation will change regarding IFR flight

All the whiz bang nonsense coming from the FAA is stupid

Go with what you know will work

All the whiz bang nonsense coming from the FAA is stupid
Go with what you know will work

I know you probably don't mean this quite so literally, but we'd still
be flying A/N radio ranges and following light beacons with that
attitude...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck writes:

I know you probably don't mean this quite so literally, but we'd still
be flying A/N radio ranges and following light beacons with that
attitude...

GPS will be more widely used once experience has proved that it can be
trusted.

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
oups.com...
We picked up our radial (352 FROM SYI, i think), and headed for MQY.

The trip back was pretty cool. I opted to fly the VOR all the way into
SYI,

I'm surprised to see that primary students are still flying VOR
radials. I thought that had gone the way of ADFs and light beacons,

I was flying to Reno last week and there was a GPS outage part of the way
there. I had a couple guys with me and they just looked at me when the MX20
and the 296 went blank. I just tuned in to the next VOR and kept going 10
minutes later they came back.

but I guess not.

Great story -- thanks for sharing it!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

I was flying to Reno last week and there was a GPS outage part of the way
there. I had a couple guys with me and they just looked at me when the MX20
and the 296 went blank. I just tuned in to the next VOR and kept going 10
minutes later they came back.

Interesting. I've had a similar experience where I lost one (or two)
GPS's (for reasons unknown) -- but I've never lost *both* of them.

I'm not saying VORs don't have a place anymore. I'm just surprised to
hear primary students flying around solely by reference to them. It
seems rather quaint, with so many students training in glass
cockpits...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Interesting. I've had a similar experience where I lost one (or two)
GPS's (for reasons unknown) -- but I've never lost *both* of them.

Obviously that should read "...one (OF two) GPS's"...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

In article .com,
Jay Honeck wrote:

Interesting. I've had a similar experience where I lost one (or two)
GPS's (for reasons unknown) -- but I've never lost *both* of them.

Obviously that should read "...one (OF two) GPS's"...

I thought you carried more than 2, no?

--
Bob Noel
(goodness, please trim replies!!!)

I had the same thing occur to both units just before an IFR departure
earlier this week as well- perhaps the GPS failure was pretty widespread.

Rebooted both and they came up no problem.