the ideal fire/water bomber?

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Jim Logajan wrote in
:
Airships. JMHO.

Yes, and a cheap suborbital launch system when you relelase the water!

WWI Zeppelins dropped tons of bombs on England and I'm pretty sure none
went suborbital. I'm sure the crews would have loved to gain the altitude
to get clear of anti-aircraft fire! ;-)

Hard to think of anything better to get near a turbulent fire as well.

I presume they would drop from a higher altitude when turbulence got too
strong. I suspect lower airspeed would translate to better drop control -
it's not like they have to worry about AA fire ;-). If needed I suppose
they could even use tethers to help maintain station in high winds (maybe
even use a long hose to a source of water on the ground?). Though I admit
tethers can cause more control problems than expected for LTA craft.

On the other hand, here's a video someone took of a Goodyear blimp caught
in a thunderstorm trying to make headway in turbulent conditions:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERI8_cprgMo

It ended in a crash, but no fatalities according to the NTSB report:

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...06X00943&key=1

Jim Logajan wrote in
:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Jim Logajan wrote in
:
Airships. JMHO.

Yes, and a cheap suborbital launch system when you relelase the
water!

WWI Zeppelins dropped tons of bombs on England and I'm pretty sure
none went suborbital. I'm sure the crews would have loved to gain the
altitude to get clear of anti-aircraft fire! ;-)

Hard to think of anything better to get near a turbulent fire as
well.

I presume they would drop from a higher altitude when turbulence got
too strong.


It's pretty strong around even relativle small fires, and the thermal
draft is unbeleivable. I can't see it being very controllable at all, bu
tthen I don't even fly balloons let alone airships.


..I suspect lower airspeed would translate to better drop
control - it's not like they have to worry about AA fire ;-). If
needed I suppose they could even use tethers to help maintain station
in high winds (maybe even use a long hose to a source of water on the
ground?). Though I admit tethers can cause more control problems than
expected for LTA craft.

On the other hand, here's a video someone took of a Goodyear blimp
caught in a thunderstorm trying to make headway in turbulent
conditions:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERI8_cprgMo


Wow! that was cool!


It ended in a crash, but no fatalities according to the NTSB report:

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...06X00943&key=1



They were vry lucky, really. If you've never read the account of the
Navy's airships you should. The stories of their encounters with CB is
unforgettable reading.

Bertie

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Jim Logajan wrote:
On the other hand, here's a video someone took of a Goodyear blimp
caught in a thunderstorm trying to make headway in turbulent
conditions:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERI8_cprgMo

Wow! that was cool!

It ended in a crash, but no fatalities according to the NTSB report:

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...06X00943&key=1

They were vry lucky, really.

I have a bit more on that airship incident, if you are interested in that
sort of stuff. The following is quoted with permission from Rick Zitarosa
who posted this to the University of Colorado e-mail Airship-List about a
month ago:

"This was the summer 2005 wreck of the STARS AND STRIPES near its home
base at Pompano. The pilot took off with marginal weather
approaching....the only passenger aboard was his BROTHER. Apparently it
was figured he could take his brother up for a spin and get back before
any bad weather affected the flight or field conditions.

He got caught in the storm that radar had pretty-well WARNED him about,
from all appearances he either badly trimmed or outright STALLED the
airship and then it fell down stern first and hit a warehouse.

This particular pilot had already been previously implicated in a mooring
mast deflation accident, from what I'm told (but Goodyear is an outfit
that has always been known to "give the dog TWO BITES" unless the mistake
might be from incredible stupidity or carelessness.)

The ship was lost, though the nearly-new envelope was later repaired at
no small expense. This was the FOURTH Goodyear airship to be wrecked in
FIVE YEARS and there was considerable speculation about the fact that
this spate of accidents had started to occur when many of the Senior LTA
pilots had started to retire and,

a) whether the ship would be replaced AT ALL

b) whether Goodyear might throw in the towel on its "in house" LTA
operation and simply outsource the whole thing to some outfit like
Lightship Group and start flying A-150's on a "wet lease" with the
Goodyear name simply decaled onto the side.

The pilot ended up "grounded" and in a desk job for the duration of the
investigation at the Goodyear Wingfoot Lake facility where other LTA
employees could pass his desk and glare at him daily. The Investigation
Board was not particularly charitable to the pilot's judgement (a couple
of old-time pilots' judgement renderings following review of amateur
video of the situation were downright PROFANE) and the pilot was
eventually "sacked." (Remember, Goodyear originally provided a lot of
pilots into the Navy program of World War II who became senior Reserve
Officers/Instructors and there was always a heavy "Goodyear" stamp on
Navy LTA.. Indeed, many of the postwar Goodyear blimp pilots were former
Navy or trained by former Navy and even a couple of pilots still flying
today remember "learning LTA" in the 70's and 80's from old-time pilots
who were TYRANTS! One of the old Senior pilots had the nickname " Old
Turkey Neck" because he could be simultaneuosly be reprimanding a new
student pilot and still lean his head WAY OUT the car window to bellow at
a ground crewman r" Hey, what the hell you doing with THAT LINE?????")

Am told that he is actually a decent pilot and a HELL OF A NICE GUY, but
as far as Goodyear was concerned he was directly responsible for losing a
$10 million airship and he had to go. He apparently still works in the
LTA industry today....there is something of a limited number of pilots,
particularly in peak months, and Goodyear is not the only game in town.

Have some good video footage of the old N10A AMERICA making a
(successful) emergency landing in a sandstorm in Texas...will try to post
it one of these days."

If you've never read the account of the
Navy's airships you should. The stories of their encounters with CB is
unforgettable reading.

I have several books on my bookshelf that have harrowing (and tragic)
tales of such encounters, including non-U.S. navy ops:

"Sky Ships - A History of the Airship in the United States Navy"
by William F. Althoff,

"The Zeppelin in Combat - A History of the German Naval Airship Division,
1912 - 1918" by Douglas H. Robinson,

"Dr. Eckener's Dream Machine - The Great Zeppelin and the Dawn of Air
Travel" by Douglas Botting.

Jim Logajan wrote in
:

Airships. JMHO.

.... if you got the time, we got the water. :-)

--

Easy, - The Canadair, piston or turboprop.

It is DESIGNED to do this work..

Presently holds the records for dumping on fires...

Some place in Brazil in think one crew made a drop every 55
seconds, for almost 2 hours! (fire was right beside the lake)

Watched one load from my boat a few yrs ago... They hit full power
as soon as they touch the water, loads in a few seconds.

I is tough work. I spoke to one of the pilots, he showed me his
helmet, gouged and beat up from hitting the side of the cockpit in the
turbulance over the fire. He described it as "up 50 ft, down 50 ft,
right 50 ft and left 50 ft...all at the same time"...

Dave





On Sat, 27 Oct 2007 08:41:25 -0700, "patrick mitchel"
wrote:

After watching the multiplicity of ac doing their jobs on the southern cal
fires this last week and hearing that the guvmint C130 had the wrong sized
tanks and the forestry dept and said guvmint were haggling over what should
be done, I thought I'd ask what is the opinions of others regarding what
current - or hypothetical craft would be considered for the role. Thanks Pat

On Oct 27, 8:41 am, "patrick mitchel" wrote:
After watching the multiplicity of ac doing their jobs on the southern cal
fires this last week and hearing that the guvmint C130 had the wrong sized
tanks and the forestry dept and said guvmint were haggling over what should
be done, I thought I'd ask what is the opinions of others regarding what
current - or hypothetical craft would be considered for the role. Thanks Pat

I'm glad to see the Canadian Mars being used. I visited their base on
Vancouver Island and they are a great bunch of guys with great
airplanes. US authorities do not call on them nearly enough.

Bob Gardner

Probably some of the best vid of the 415 in action!

Dave

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcqguPTBteQ

On Sun, 28 Oct 2007 09:40:16 -0300, Dave
wrote:

Probably some of the best vid of the 415 in action!

Dave

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcqguPTBteQ


For some raw news footage of some awesome flying check out:

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/...=mpvideosemail


I don't know if this was posted here earlier, but it was sent to me by
my son during the fires here.

Ron

WhooHoo!

No time to have left the wheels down!

Whatta bullseye drop!

Dave



On Sun, 28 Oct 2007 21:05:25 -0700, Ron wrote:

On Sun, 28 Oct 2007 09:40:16 -0300, Dave
wrote:

Probably some of the best vid of the 415 in action!

Dave

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcqguPTBteQ


For some raw news footage of some awesome flying check out:

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/...=mpvideosemail


I don't know if this was posted here earlier, but it was sent to me by
my son during the fires here.

Ron

That video almost gave me a heart attack. WOW those pilots earn their
pay.

Is this typical?