Any CAP pilots?

wrote:
On Nov 5, 10:54 am, "Gatt" wrote:
A coworker is a radio specialist for the local Civil Air Patrol unit, says
they're looking for pilots right now.
I'm just curious what thoughts or experiences people have with regard to the
CAP.
My experience with the Wyoming arm of the CAP was troubling at best. I
offered to go though the Form 5 jump through the hoops process. The
wing was and still is run by a bunch of ex military people who have
the system set up to make it next to impossible for anew guy to get to
fly "their" planes. After a year or so I threw in the towel and
emailed the national commander to view my thoughts. I warned him of
incompentence and the inbreed nature of the CAP here.

-Snip -

My experience with CAP is long and old, but here goes:

In high school, in Pennsylvania during WWII, I was a CAP cadet. I
learned to march, wear a uniform, and was taught air navigation and led
me to start flying lessons as noted here before.

Fast forward. After moving to Ohio and finally getting my private
license, in 1966 I joined the local Group unit, which operated a Cessna
150 that was donated by a local wealthy CAP member. Granted, I had to
wait my turn to be able to fly that 150; and I did dutifully participate
in SARCAPs (practice exercises). Yes there were some veterans in the
unit that dominated, but that was OK by me since the had both the
authority as well as the responsibility for maintaining that aircraft to
be air worthy as well as to maintain a cadre of pilots that could and
would fly it according to CAP regulations. Also note that the two
missions of CAP is Search and rescue (SAR) and Aerospace Education for
youth, somewhat analogous to the Boy & Girl Scouts.

I remained in that Group unit, moving up to be group commander in the
late '70's. The C150 was painted, then transferred to a Squadron, and we
obtained a C172 (T41) which group operated successfully. Our cadre of
pilots was bout 5 in number. To finance the usage of the T41, we formed
an internal "Club" where these pilots paid a monthly fee plus the fuel
they used. The T41 was still a cost to the Group because the fees did
not cover all the maintenance, but we survived.

My halcyon days ended wen I was transferred to Wing HQ as a Lt Col. It
seemed that the rare atmosphere of "headquarters" was more than I liked
(no flying). I attended wing meetings, but then the building we used, a
surviving WWII hangar at the local City airport, was demolished for
other facility development. The meeting place moved yet further from my
home, so my attendance to Wing HQ diminished to nil. I resigned in the
late '90's (received a retirement "Discharge" from Maxwell AFB!). These
units still are operating today at a level of about the same or a bit
less than my halcyon days.

Don't knock the CAP. It's still an excellent influence in the
environment. The CAP has two missions, vital to America as we know it;
Search and rescue, and Aerospace education for Tween's and Teens, Male
and Female "Cadets". Despite the wrangling and petty politics described
elsewhere, it remains, in my professional opinion an excellent tool to
develop our aerospace capabilities, our youth and our future. More than
one Cadet has passed through our (my) hands to go on to become
successful military pilots and officers.

with certain pilots and named them. Just s few weeks later he flew the
CAP plane through the Snake River canyon where it was about 100 feet
wide and hit a cable 15 feet of the water. Killed him and destroyed
the plane.

Very bad supervision coming from State Wing Headquarters. Field
inspections by Wing HQ should have identified and corrected these
characteristics.

This year one of the other pilots who was known as
marginal at best was on a mission and spun it in, killing himself and
two other innocent humans. Also someone posted that you will be called
for a mission in the middile of the night. i was told a CAP plane
CANNOT fly bewteen sunset and sun up. as in , no night flying.

Not so according to my experience. Since virtually all US civilian
aircraft are fitted with an emergency locator transmitter (ELT),
airborne patterns can be flown to pinpoint the location of a downed
aircraft. But night qualification of pilots is a must. I did such flight
checkouts, as by 1967, I has my CFI and CFII. It was a mandate for our
units (Ohio).

Probably just more BS that I was fed by the Wyoming CAP chapter. YMMV

Because things are wrong does not mean that they cannot be made right.
The biggest problem is that there are precious few persons that will
qualify for the (CAP) role. They must be (in the case of Air Operations)
1- a pilot, 2- be able to attend weekly meetings, 3- Buy and wear a
uniform, 4- have some financial resources to keep current their pilot's
license proficiency in type, 4- interested in unit organization and
operation and 5- willing to both participate in missions as well as some
aerospace education including routine orientation flights for cadets.
Persons of this ilk are not the "common man".

If any of you have these bents, look up you local CAP unit; they are
often in the phone book, though by now, they may have web pages. In my
opinion, our country's future depends on it. Be open-minded. expect
little for yourself. Do as asked.

Angelo Campanella

The Wyoming guys sound like student pilots on the radio. You have to
treat them with kid gloves.



wrote:
On Nov 5, 10:54 am, "Gatt" wrote:

A coworker is a radio specialist for the local Civil Air Patrol unit, says
they're looking for pilots right now.

I'm just curious what thoughts or experiences people have with regard to the
CAP.

-Chris


My experience with the Wyoming arm of the CAP was troubling at best. I
offered to go though the Form 5 jump through the hoops process. The
wing was and still is run by a bunch of ex military people who have
the system set up to make it next to impossible for anew guy to get to
fly "their" planes. After a year or so I threw in the towel and
emailed the nationa commander to view my thoughts. I warned him of
incompentence and the inbreed nature of the CAP here. I would not fly
with certain pilots and named them. Just s few weeks later he flew the
CAP plane through the Snake River canyon where it was about 100 feet
wide and hit a cable 15 feet of the water. Killed him and destroyed
the plane. This year one of the other pilots who was known as
marginal at best was on a mission and spun it in, killing himself and
two other innocent humans. Also someone posted that you will be called
for a mission in the middile of the night. i was told a CAP plane
CANNOT fly bewteen sunset and sun up. as in , no night flying.
Probably just more BS that I was fed by the Wyoming CAP chapter. YMMV


Ben
www.haaspowerair.com

Boy the WY outfit sounds bad, however here in PA I do not see those
problems. We take the mission and training very serious. By the way there
are 3 missions not 2, the old SAR and Aerospace Ed are still there but there
is also a homeland security side.

I also can't believe the number of non-resonse reports people have had. In
this area we all recognize that volunteers are usually over worked and if
there can be more added to the rolls the better it is for everyone. We take
any help you are willing to give and realize the average person can't be
running every weekend.

I started about 1969 as a cadet and then went USAF. Came back 7 or 8 years
ago as a SM to fly because I believe as a Pilot if I went down I'd want some
one to come looking so therefore I need to do the same for fellow pilots.
This is also what made me be a volunteer fire fighter for 15 years, if you
want someone available to put out your house fire or responded to your car
wreck then you need to be able to return the favor for others.

It is a military based system, paperwork, rule and regulations so you need
to be able to adapt to that and work with it. If you have problem units
then do what you can to change them, usually if you read and know the
regulations you can deal with those who try to buffalo you with BS.

Ron Gardner, DO
GRP 5, PAWG

"Newps" wrote in message
. ..
The Wyoming guys sound like student pilots on the radio. You have to
treat them with kid gloves.



wrote:
On Nov 5, 10:54 am, "Gatt" wrote:

A coworker is a radio specialist for the local Civil Air Patrol unit,
says
they're looking for pilots right now.

I'm just curious what thoughts or experiences people have with regard to
the
CAP.

-Chris


My experience with the Wyoming arm of the CAP was troubling at best. I
offered to go though the Form 5 jump through the hoops process. The
wing was and still is run by a bunch of ex military people who have
the system set up to make it next to impossible for anew guy to get to
fly "their" planes. After a year or so I threw in the towel and
emailed the nationa commander to view my thoughts. I warned him of
incompentence and the inbreed nature of the CAP here. I would not fly
with certain pilots and named them. Just s few weeks later he flew the
CAP plane through the Snake River canyon where it was about 100 feet
wide and hit a cable 15 feet of the water. Killed him and destroyed
the plane. This year one of the other pilots who was known as
marginal at best was on a mission and spun it in, killing himself and
two other innocent humans. Also someone posted that you will be called
for a mission in the middile of the night. i was told a CAP plane
CANNOT fly bewteen sunset and sun up. as in , no night flying.
Probably just more BS that I was fed by the Wyoming CAP chapter. YMMV


Ben
www.haaspowerair.com

On Nov 6, 9:59 am, Newps wrote:
The Wyoming guys sound like student pilots on the radio. You have to
treat them with kid gloves.


- Show quoted text -

Ya know. I didn't join the CAP to get free flight time, I have my own
plane and even my own airport. I joined so I could help another human
being that needs help in a timely manner. Let's add up the Wyoming
track record, they had four planes, two are destroyed, four people are
dead, all in two years. The thing that really got a chuckle out of me
was back about a month ago when the CAP was conducting a search for
Steve Fosset the networks were interviewing a woman CAP rep who was
very well spoken and sounded sincere, right up till the time a
reporter asked her if any other pilots would be allowed to help
search. Her response was " when the cowboys jump in their planes and
start searching we will ground all of our planes". This was just days
after one of "their" cowboys killed himself and two others in Northern
Wyoming looking for a lost hiker. Now granted, during a search every
one needs to be on the same page for safety there is nothing lost by
getting pilots together, make a plan for the CAP to search a given
sector and the others to each work different sectors. The more eyes
looking down the greater chance of a find, and at the end of the day
that's what search and rescue is all about. Her arrogent answer that
day has sealed the deal for me stay far away from the CAP.... Just my
two cents worth....

off my soapbox.

Ben

I saw her speak several times, but I missed that one! Ya know even the best
politician screws up sometimes. I hope someone straightened her out there
seems to be enough bad press already going around. But back to the
question, I believe I saw there were several non-CAP planes in on the
search.

Ron Gardner



wrote in message
oups.com...
On Nov 6, 9:59 am, Newps wrote:
The Wyoming guys sound like student pilots on the radio. You have to
treat them with kid gloves.


- Show quoted text -

Ya know. I didn't join the CAP to get free flight time, I have my own
plane and even my own airport. I joined so I could help another human
being that needs help in a timely manner. Let's add up the Wyoming
track record, they had four planes, two are destroyed, four people are
dead, all in two years. The thing that really got a chuckle out of me
was back about a month ago when the CAP was conducting a search for
Steve Fosset the networks were interviewing a woman CAP rep who was
very well spoken and sounded sincere, right up till the time a
reporter asked her if any other pilots would be allowed to help
search. Her response was " when the cowboys jump in their planes and
start searching we will ground all of our planes". This was just days
after one of "their" cowboys killed himself and two others in Northern
Wyoming looking for a lost hiker. Now granted, during a search every
one needs to be on the same page for safety there is nothing lost by
getting pilots together, make a plan for the CAP to search a given
sector and the others to each work different sectors. The more eyes
looking down the greater chance of a find, and at the end of the day
that's what search and rescue is all about. Her arrogent answer that
day has sealed the deal for me stay far away from the CAP.... Just my
two cents worth....

off my soapbox.

Ben

On Nov 7, 4:45 pm, "R. Gardner" wrote:
I saw her speak several times, but I missed that one! Ya know even the best
politician screws up sometimes. I hope someone straightened her out there
seems to be enough bad press already going around. But back to the
question, I believe I saw there were several non-CAP planes in on the
search.

Ron Gardner


If that was the case, my faith in the system is somewhat restored.
The Civil Air Patrol is a GREAT concept. It is the way that it's run
that ruins it. One has to remember, all the CAP planes are owned by
the US Air Force, as in they belong to all of us. The higher ups seem
to forget that quite often..

Safe flyin guys. !!

Ben

hey, I am a student pilot and I don't need to be handled with kid
gloves.

On Nov 24, 3:40 am, wrote:
hey, I am a student pilot and I don't need to be handled with kid
gloves.

Yeah,,, The CAP is full of "student pilots".. hence the high death
rate. :(

On Nov 24, 4:28 pm, " wrote:
On Nov 24, 3:40 am, wrote:

hey, I am a student pilot and I don't need to be handled with kid
gloves.

Yeah,,, The CAP is full of "student pilots".. hence the high death
rate. :(

Wow, again this is very different from the CAP we have here in
California. If I had to guess I'd say the average number of hours for
a CAP mission pilot is about 2000 hours. In California there is very
little reason for student pilots fly since we really don't have
aircraft approved for student use (we are almost all 182's, which CAP
prohibits student instruction in). Besides our planes are so busy it
would be unlikely a commander would approve the use of such by
students. Finally, our dry rates are almost as high as an FBO (I know
some states have CAP aircraft available at reduced rate, we pay about
$80/hr dry here). Gas at CAP airports always seems higher (probably
because they are larger airports), around $5/gal right now.


-Robert

On Nov 24, 4:28 pm, " wrote:
On Nov 24, 3:40 am, wrote:

hey, I am a student pilot and I don't need to be handled with kid
gloves.

Yeah,,, The CAP is full of "student pilots".. hence the high death
rate. :(

You're a arrogant moron, I am a Canadian and we don't have the student
death rates you americans do! we actually learn spin, stall, spiral
dive, and learn how to ditch a plane in a field. Our student death
rate is not like your american statistics.And we are actually taught
to land in a field rather than on a HIGHWAY full of CARS like you
americans. So keep your ****ty attitude to yourself. And by the way, I
am female and we don't have the death rate per capita that you macho
male students have either, so shut your pie hole and keep your
negative bull**** to yourself.