Flyboys?

Having been a ground pounder, then an aircrewman during the 1980s, my
experience with the term is limited. As jet mechs, we called the "pretty boys"
in flight suits that never had to stand a watch or get dirty by the negative
term "fly boys". Later, when it was my time in the flightsuit, periodically I
would be approached by women that used the term with much greater affection and
appreciation. I think that the term can be used like almost every other term,
either positively or negatively.

v/r
Gordon
====(A+C====
USN SAR

Donate your memories - write a note on the back and send those old photos to a
reputable museum, don't take them with you when you're gone.

"Krztalizer" wrote in message
...
Having been a ground pounder, then an aircrewman during the 1980s, my
experience with the term is limited. As jet mechs, we called the "pretty
boys"
in flight suits that never had to stand a watch or get dirty by the
negative
term "fly boys". Later, when it was my time in the flightsuit,
periodically I
would be approached by women that used the term with much greater
affection and
appreciation. I think that the term can be used like almost every other
term,
either positively or negatively.

v/r
Gordon
====(A+C====
USN SAR

Exactly!!

Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired
For personal email, please replace
the z's with e's.
dhenriquesATzarthlinkDOTnzt

On 16 Dec 2003 20:43:41 GMT, nt (Krztalizer) wrote:

Having been a ground pounder, then an aircrewman during the 1980s, my
experience with the term is limited. As jet mechs, we called the "pretty boys"
in flight suits that never had to stand a watch or get dirty by the negative
term "fly boys". Later, when it was my time in the flightsuit, periodically I
would be approached by women that used the term with much greater affection and
appreciation. I think that the term can be used like almost every other term,
either positively or negatively.

v/r
Gordon

While I can understand the jet mechs envy that the aviators never had
to "stand a watch or get dirty", I usually asked them how long the
average jet mech spent in Hanoi as a POW, or how many of them were
lost last week during their shift. It seems to quiet the envy and pull
the plug on the green-eyed monster.

As Art often reminds us, we don't always get to walk a mile in the
other guys shoes, but while I respect the eyeball-to-eyeball
experience of the grunt, I expect that he, in return, will offer me
similar respect for where I've been and what I've done.

I probably have been called "flyboy", but don't worry too much about
it.

"Gord Beaman" wrote in message
...
"Dudley Henriques" wrote:


Although I'm sure there were those who might have used this term in a
derogatory way, it should be noted that the term itself is so generic
that
it's use was certainly not limited to a negative context alone.
I'm fairly certain that there were many who used this term in an
extremely
positive sense as the term related to them personally, and their positive
feelings about those who were fighting above them or for them, and in
many
cases, protecting them.
I know that in my years of association with those who have flown in
harm's
way, I can't remember anyone having a violent reaction to the term.
Dudley Henriques

I find it amazing that you could say that, Of course you've
amazed me before so I shouldn't be surprised I guess. I suppose I
shouldn't knock your misinterpetation here because you're
speaking from almost zero experience aren't you?. That shouldn't
surprise me by now either I guess.

I'll merely state that not once in my 26 years in the military
have I ever heard anyone call anyone a 'flyboy' with other than
derision in mind. Not once. Derision only. Sorry.

-Gord.

I take it that after we delete the unnecessary and unfortunately predictable
vitriol, we have an opposing opinion here.
Perhaps next time you can try something like ;
"In my experience I've found the term more negative than positive". Makes
your point.......doesn't waste time and bandwidth....and definitely makes
for more intelligent discussion don't you think? :-)
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired
For personal email, please replace
the z's with e's.
dhenriquesATzarthlinkDOTnzt

"Dudley Henriques" wrote:


I'll merely state that not once in my 26 years in the military
have I ever heard anyone call anyone a 'flyboy' with other than
derision in mind. Not once. Derision only. Sorry.

-Gord.

I take it that after we delete the unnecessary and unfortunately predictable
vitriol, we have an opposing opinion here.

Vitriol?...God, you've lived a very sheltered life haven't
you?...



--Gord.

"Bull ****! This is a constant speed prop. RPM is a
set value. The RPM can be set at 3000 and the
manifold pressure can be anywhere between 15 inches
and 61 inches, and it's the manifold pressure
combined with the set RPM that will determine the
power.....NOT the RPM!!! Are you trying to tell
me that the rotational (energy) of a propeller is
the same at 15 inches as it is at 61?".
-D Henriques

"Cub Driver" wrote in message
...

I just picked up a copy of Flyboys at BJ's Wholesale Club. Read the
first two chapters last night.

I was amazed that the author uses the term Flyboys throughout the
book, or at least throughout the first chapter. I'd assumed it was
just a cute title, but no: "Flyboys were over Chici Jima" etc.

When I was growing up--which was about the time of these
events--"flyboy" was a derisive name. It's what a ground-pounder would
say when he complained about the soft life pilots (indeed air crews)
had, compared to the infantry in the mud.

Anyone else ever heard it this way? Any mllitary pilots here ever
refer to themselves as flyboys or Flyboys?

Well, I realize you have asked for a "military pilot's" opinion, but
considering everything involved with how that relates to me, I'll answer the
post anyway :-)
I just finished the book. My reaction was similar to yours, but slightly
different perhaps.
The term itself was quite common as you know back during the war. It was
used by the pounders and civilians as well. I remember my mother using the
term on occasion.
As for the Bradley; if I was reviewing the book, ( I don't "review" books
any more :-) I would come away with the feeling that he is overusing the
term both in the book as you have noted, and as well by assigning it through
inference if nothing else in a completely naval context, which in my opinion
is incorrect. I believe the use of the term was generic in assignment.
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired
For personal email, please replace
the z's with e's.
dhenriquesATzarthlinkDOTnzt

Subject: Flyboys?
From: "Dudley Henriques"
Date: 12/16/03 7:03 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: et


"Cub Driver" wrote in message
.. .

I just picked up a copy of Flyboys at BJ's Wholesale Club. Read the
first two chapters last night.

I was amazed that the author uses the term Flyboys throughout the
book, or at least throughout the first chapter. I'd assumed it was
just a cute title, but no: "Flyboys were over Chici Jima" etc.

When I was growing up--which was about the time of these
events--"flyboy" was a derisive name. It's what a ground-pounder would
say when he complained about the soft life pilots (indeed air crews)
had, compared to the infantry in the mud.

Anyone else ever heard it this way? Any mllitary pilots here ever
refer to themselves as flyboys or Flyboys?

Well, I realize you have asked for a "military pilot's" opinion, but
considering everything involved with how that relates to me, I'll answer the
post anyway :-)
I just finished the book. My reaction was similar to yours, but slightly
different perhaps.
The term itself was quite common as you know back during the war. It was
used by the pounders and civilians as well. I remember my mother using the
term on occasion.
As for the Bradley; if I was reviewing the book, ( I don't "review" books
any more :-) I would come away with the feeling that he is overusing the
term both in the book as you have noted, and as well by assigning it through
inference if nothing else in a completely naval context, which in my opinion
is incorrect. I believe the use of the term was generic in assignment.
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired
For personal email, please replace
the z's with e's.
dhenriquesATzarthlinkDOTnzt



Right you are Dudley. Flyboys was ususally a term of admiration and envy. The
best, the brightest and the chosen. The elite of the armed forces. Of course
tone of voice could mitigate that And it applied to all who flew, not just
pilots., Ground pounders applied to infantry. But those in an AAC squadron who
were not on flying status were called "Paddlefeet" I think the guy who wrote
Flyboys knew whereof he spoke

Regards,

Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: Flyboys?
From: "Dudley Henriques"
Date: 12/16/03 7:03 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: et


"Cub Driver" wrote in message
.. .

I just picked up a copy of Flyboys at BJ's Wholesale Club. Read the
first two chapters last night.

I was amazed that the author uses the term Flyboys throughout the
book, or at least throughout the first chapter. I'd assumed it was
just a cute title, but no: "Flyboys were over Chici Jima" etc.

When I was growing up--which was about the time of these
events--"flyboy" was a derisive name. It's what a ground-pounder would
say when he complained about the soft life pilots (indeed air crews)
had, compared to the infantry in the mud.

Anyone else ever heard it this way? Any mllitary pilots here ever
refer to themselves as flyboys or Flyboys?

Well, I realize you have asked for a "military pilot's" opinion, but
considering everything involved with how that relates to me, I'll answer
the
post anyway :-)
I just finished the book. My reaction was similar to yours, but slightly
different perhaps.
The term itself was quite common as you know back during the war. It was
used by the pounders and civilians as well. I remember my mother using
the
term on occasion.
As for the Bradley; if I was reviewing the book, ( I don't "review" books
any more :-) I would come away with the feeling that he is overusing the
term both in the book as you have noted, and as well by assigning it
through
inference if nothing else in a completely naval context, which in my
opinion
is incorrect. I believe the use of the term was generic in assignment.
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired
For personal email, please replace
the z's with e's.
dhenriquesATzarthlinkDOTnzt



Right you are Dudley. Flyboys was ususally a term of admiration and
envy. The
best, the brightest and the chosen. The elite of the armed forces. Of
course
tone of voice could mitigate that And it applied to all who flew, not
just
pilots., Ground pounders applied to infantry. But those in an AAC squadron
who
were not on flying status were called "Paddlefeet" I think the guy who
wrote
Flyboys knew whereof he spoke

Regards,

I think the term "flyboys" is indicative of many of like terms that sprung
up throughout the war. I believe you are absolutely correct in saying that
any meaning or connotation attached to such terms would have to include
exactly who was using the term and the context under which the term was
being used. To arbitrarily assign either a positive or negative meaning to
such a term without context being involved is in my judgment incorrect. On
one hand, you can have a disgruntled soldier looking up into the sky saying
to his buddy, "Flyboys are over rated idiots!". Then on the other hand you
have a woman standing on a London street corner in her bombed out
neighborhood watching a Spit dispatching a Ju88 muttering to herself, "Thank
GOD for the flyboys!" Both are valid uses of the term; one is negative, one
positive. It's just that kind of thing......a slang expression that brings
one closer to what one might not have the "right" words to express......a
way of expressing an intimate contact where intimate contact might not
exist.
I do believe that Bradley really overworked the term in "Flyboys".
His continuous use of the term throughout the book reminded me of some of
these rock groups where the group seemingly finds a chord or harmony run
that sounds REAL good to them, so they work it over and over and over and
over and over.....until it's been done so many times that the initial
benefit on the ear has been lost through sheer repetition.
:-)
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired
For personal email, please replace
the z's with e's.
dhenriquesATzarthlinkDOTnzt

Subject: Flyboys?
From: "Dudley Henriques"
Date: 12/16/03 8:28 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: et


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: Flyboys?
From: "Dudley Henriques"
Date: 12/16/03 7:03 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: et


"Cub Driver" wrote in message
.. .

I just picked up a copy of Flyboys at BJ's Wholesale Club. Read the
first two chapters last night.

I was amazed that the author uses the term Flyboys throughout the
book, or at least throughout the first chapter. I'd assumed it was
just a cute title, but no: "Flyboys were over Chici Jima" etc.

When I was growing up--which was about the time of these
events--"flyboy" was a derisive name. It's what a ground-pounder would
say when he complained about the soft life pilots (indeed air crews)
had, compared to the infantry in the mud.

Anyone else ever heard it this way? Any mllitary pilots here ever
refer to themselves as flyboys or Flyboys?

Well, I realize you have asked for a "military pilot's" opinion, but
considering everything involved with how that relates to me, I'll answer
the
post anyway :-)
I just finished the book. My reaction was similar to yours, but slightly
different perhaps.
The term itself was quite common as you know back during the war. It was
used by the pounders and civilians as well. I remember my mother using
the
term on occasion.
As for the Bradley; if I was reviewing the book, ( I don't "review" books
any more :-) I would come away with the feeling that he is overusing the
term both in the book as you have noted, and as well by assigning it
through
inference if nothing else in a completely naval context, which in my
opinion
is incorrect. I believe the use of the term was generic in assignment.
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired
For personal email, please replace
the z's with e's.
dhenriquesATzarthlinkDOTnzt



Right you are Dudley. Flyboys was ususally a term of admiration and
envy. The
best, the brightest and the chosen. The elite of the armed forces. Of
course
tone of voice could mitigate that And it applied to all who flew, not
just
pilots., Ground pounders applied to infantry. But those in an AAC squadron
who
were not on flying status were called "Paddlefeet" I think the guy who
wrote
Flyboys knew whereof he spoke

Regards,

I think the term "flyboys" is indicative of many of like terms that sprung
up throughout the war. I believe you are absolutely correct in saying that
any meaning or connotation attached to such terms would have to include
exactly who was using the term and the context under which the term was
being used. To arbitrarily assign either a positive or negative meaning to
such a term without context being involved is in my judgment incorrect. On
one hand, you can have a disgruntled soldier looking up into the sky saying
to his buddy, "Flyboys are over rated idiots!". Then on the other hand you
have a woman standing on a London street corner in her bombed out
neighborhood watching a Spit dispatching a Ju88 muttering to herself, "Thank
GOD for the flyboys!" Both are valid uses of the term; one is negative, one
positive. It's just that kind of thing......a slang expression that brings
one closer to what one might not have the "right" words to express......a
way of expressing an intimate contact where intimate contact might not
exist.
I do believe that Bradley really overworked the term in "Flyboys".
His continuous use of the term throughout the book reminded me of some of
these rock groups where the group seemingly finds a chord or harmony run
that sounds REAL good to them, so they work it over and over and over and
over and over.....until it's been done so many times that the initial
benefit on the ear has been lost through sheer repetition.
:-)
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired
For personal email, please replace
the z's with e's.
dhenriquesATzarthlinkDOTnzt



Flyboys was often used with a warm element of effection attached to it.

Regards,

Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

Flyboys was a generic term for aircrew. You might hear it used when you went
into a cafe in your uniform and sat down at the counter. The waitress, handing
you a menu, would say, "Hiya, flyboy!"
Or you might be at a train station trying to get transportation and the ticket
booth guy might turn to somebody and say, "Hey, I got a bunch of flyboys here
who need to get to Greenville."
No offense intended or implied.
The term is beaten into the ground in the book.
Just for the hell of it, I looked in a dictionary of slang to see if the term
is there. It is. The entry says, in part, "An aviator, esp. a glamorous,
heroic or daring aviator. In WWII usu. used ironically. Now derog., implying
snobbishness, youth and cautiousness."


Chris Mark