radiocomm question

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

Your instructor was mistaken. You should remain with ground control until
ready to request takeoff clearance unless told otherwise.

Agreed. I have noticed at quite a few airports that the tower likes to
handle the crossing of active runways. If this is the case, Ground should
have instructed you to contact the tower when holding short at Charlie.

If the runway were obviously clear and it looked like I'd been forgotten, I
would have contacted Ground and reminded them that I was holding short of 23L.
Since you were holding for landing traffic, it's quite possible that Ground
would have instructed you to continue your taxi once the landing traffic was
clear.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

--
Message posted via AviationKB.com
http://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forums...ation/200803/1

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
In 18 years of flying, I've never run across this before. Is this
something new, peculiar to RDU, or was he just mistaken? Whenever I've
been in this situation before, ground always was the one to tell me to
cross a runway and taxi on to my departing runway. Granted, it could
be the same controller just on a different freq....


Your instructor was mistaken. You should remain with ground control until
ready to request takeoff clearance unless told otherwise.


I agree. I'd have stayed with ground until I was ready for takeoff from the
runway I was going to use. When I was ready to actually take off after runup,
I'd switch to tower to get the go-ahead to actually enter the runway for either
immediate departure or taxi and hold, as the case may be.

I flew out of RDU Monday through Friday for a time as a courier pilot and never
heard of this before. And RDU is probably busy enough to have its own ground
controller.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

On Mar 10, 12:21*pm, TakeFlight wrote:
Had a dual flight the other day at RDU (runway diagram link at bottom
for reference). We requested runway 14 for departure, and ground told
us "taxi to runway 14 via Juliet, Charlie, hold short of 23L" (we were
departing from the general aviation ramp).

Yes, this really depends on the airport and is very common when two
runway's approach section are right on top of each other. I've seen
the same thing at Albuquerque international. When I asked ground to
cross the "hold short" runway they thought I was an idiot and told me
to ask tower. In anycase, your CFI probably had this inside
information to avoid ground from thinking you're crazy. As pilots we
learn the general rules for airports all over the place but some
controller who's only worked ground at one airport probably thinks its
normal and us "out-of-town" pilots are odd.

-Robert, CFII

FAA Order 7210.3 can be accessed from the FAA.gov home page by clicking on
Airports and Air Traffic, and then on Orders.

Bob Gardner

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
...
On Mar 10, 12:21 pm, TakeFlight wrote:
Had a dual flight the other day at RDU (runway diagram link at bottom
for reference). We requested runway 14 for departure, and ground told
us "taxi to runway 14 via Juliet, Charlie, hold short of 23L" (we were
departing from the general aviation ramp).

Yes, this really depends on the airport and is very common when two
runway's approach section are right on top of each other. I've seen
the same thing at Albuquerque international. When I asked ground to
cross the "hold short" runway they thought I was an idiot and told me
to ask tower. In anycase, your CFI probably had this inside
information to avoid ground from thinking you're crazy. As pilots we
learn the general rules for airports all over the place but some
controller who's only worked ground at one airport probably thinks its
normal and us "out-of-town" pilots are odd.

-Robert, CFII

Your instructor was wrong. Ground control owns everything up to the hold
line for the runway in use.

Bob Gardner
SAY AGAIN, PLEASE

"TakeFlight" wrote in message
...
Had a dual flight the other day at RDU (runway diagram link at bottom
for reference). We requested runway 14 for departure, and ground told
us "taxi to runway 14 via Juliet, Charlie, hold short of 23L" (we were
departing from the general aviation ramp).

So I taxied out, eventually holding short of 23L on Charlie. The
instructor asked if I was going to switch to tower. I told him no,
that we weren't at 14 yet. He insisted that since we were holding
short of 23L that we needed to contact the tower to get across. I
disagreed.

So he called the tower and reported us as "holding short of 23L."
After a landing aircraft rolled by, tower told us to taxi to 14 and
cleared us for takeoff.

In 18 years of flying, I've never run across this before. Is this
something new, peculiar to RDU, or was he just mistaken? Whenever I've
been in this situation before, ground always was the one to tell me to
cross a runway and taxi on to my departing runway. Granted, it could
be the same controller just on a different freq....


http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0802/00516AD.PDF

On Mar 11, 9:25*am, "Bob Gardner" wrote:
Your instructor was wrong. Ground control owns everything up to the hold
line for the runway in use.

Wrong for knowing local procedures? You really shouldn't put that out
there with the information we have here. For all you know he knows the
local procedures better than you. Again, there are airports where
tower takes this resposibility. Its not wrong to ask ground first but
they then just ask you to call the tower and ask them. I've been to
such ariports and I'm sure you have too. If this CFI was using local
procedures knowledge, it sure doesn't make him "wrong".

-Robert, CFII

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
...

Wrong for knowing local procedures? You really shouldn't put that out
there with the information we have here. For all you know he knows the
local procedures better than you. Again, there are airports where
tower takes this resposibility. Its not wrong to ask ground first but
they then just ask you to call the tower and ask them. I've been to
such ariports and I'm sure you have too. If this CFI was using local
procedures knowledge, it sure doesn't make him "wrong".


The instructor was wrong. If local procedures call for the pilot to be on
tower frequency for runway crossing instructions the ground controller would
have instructed the pilot to contact tower.

On Mar 11, 10:03*am, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:
"Robert M. Gary" wrote in ...

The instructor was wrong. *If local procedures call for the pilot to be on
tower frequency for runway crossing instructions the ground controller would
have instructed the pilot to contact tower.

You would think but when I've had the same experience ground has also
assumed I knew to ask tower. The instructor is not wrong simply
because the controller forgot the instructions. If this CFI flys out
of this airport several times a day and knows the procedure, it does
not make him wrong simply because ATC forgot to state the procedure.

-Robert

Robert M. Gary wrote:

You would think but when I've had the same experience ground has also
assumed I knew to ask tower. The instructor is not wrong simply
because the controller forgot the instructions. If this CFI flys out
of this airport several times a day and knows the procedure, it does
not make him wrong simply because ATC forgot to state the procedure.

-Robert

I've flown out of KRVS in Tulsa, OK where they have an unusual
procedu after taxiing, you report your "run-up complete" to ground
and they sequence you for takeoff and give you a positive handoff to
tower when you're #1 for takeoff. Sometimes they tell you this when
you call up ground, sometimes they don't.

I'm not a controller, but doesn't the ground controller have to get
permission from (or at least coordinate with) the runway's
"owner" (tower) before allowing you to cross anyway?


Dan Luke wrote:

Didn't say it was, but I bet it's more relaxed than a busy Bravo like
Houston Hobby, for example.

They don't care much for home-made radio procedure at HOU.

Funny thing, I flew out of Hobby too back when they were still an
ARSA.... But RDU is busy enough that they don't generally allow any
training activity (touch & go's) there.

Thanks for the sanity check, all!

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
...

You would think but when I've had the same experience ground has also
assumed I knew to ask tower.


An incorrect assumption.



The instructor is not wrong simply because the controller forgot the
instructions. If this CFI flys out of this airport several times a day
and knows the
procedure, it does not make him wrong simply because ATC forgot to state
the
procedure.


The procedure is to remain on ground control frequency until ready to
request
takeoff clearance. The instructor was wrong because he told the student
something contrary to that procedure.