Could Blackjack bombers reach USA?

Scott Ferrin wrote in message . ..
Range, loaded on internal fuel - 7,640 miles (B-1B - 3,444 miles)
Equipped for IFR.


Those are brochure numbers for the Blackjack.

How about B1 are the cited numbers for B1 are brochure numbers
as well?

Pretty much from what I understand. The B-1 is definitely faster than
789 mph though I'd be surprised if any operational aircraft had done a
takeoff at 477,000lbs.





In the real world (at
least as far as FAI records go) the B-1 has the Blackjack beat in the
paylaod/range department.

In its department where B1 is the only one amybe. Tu160
is much bigger?much faster and longer lange.


Speed over a closed circuit of 5000 km with 30000 kg payload : 1054.21
km/h

Date of flight: 17/09/1987
Pilot: H. Brent HEDGPETH (USA)
Crew: Robert A. CHAMBERLAIN (copilot)
Course/place: Palmdale, CA (USA)

Aircraft:
Rockwell B-1B (4 General Electric F 101-GE-102, 14 700 kg each)
Registered 'S/N70'



Speed over a closed circuit of 5000 km with 30000 kg payload : 1017.80
km/h

Date of flight: 28/05/1990
Pilot: Serguei OSSIPOV (USSR)
Crew: D.N. MATVEEV (USSR)
Course/place: Podmoskovnoe Aerodrome (USSR)

Aircraft:
Tupolev Aircraft "70N-304" (Tupolev TU-160 "Blackjack") (4 Model "P",
25 000 kg each)



As you can see, with the same 30,000kg payload flown over a distance
of 5000km, the Blackjack was slower than the B-1B. Since the
Blackjack's record attempt was flown at a later date one would assume
they'd try to beat the B-1's. If they did try they failed. The
Blackjack also holds no 10,000km speed records while the B-1 does.
While this in itself doesn't say the Blackjack can't fly that far, it
doesn't exactly help it's case either.


Well nobody claims that neither Tu-160 nor B1 can go supesonic for
5000 km. But why you skipped shorter range records? Unlike B1
Tu160 can go supersonic for distances of 1000-2000 km. The later
is very important for the battle applications particualrly
to hit and escape from fighters attention:

Records:

Speed over a closed circuit of 1000 km with 30000 kg payload
Podmoskovnoe 1726.90 km/h Lev Vasilyevich KOZLOV Tu-160 15/05/1990

Speed over a closed circuit of 2000 km with 30000 kg payload
Podmoskovnoe 1678.00 km/h B.I. VEREMEY Tu-160 03/11/1989

Something which B1-B is not capable at all.

Michael



As for the Blackjack being faster, the lower speed of the B-1b was
intentional. The original B-1A reached Mach 2.22 which was faster
than the Blackjack. That speed was judged so important that pretty
much nobody cared when they gave it up. As for the Blackjack being
bigger. . .well if you think an aircraft that needs to be 27% heavier
and 83% more powerful to do an inferior job is something to brag
about. . .well, that's your business.





Anyway
do you have any doubts about the question asked
"Could Blackjack bombers reach USA?"

It probably had the range for a one way trip, but any aircraft that
can fly far enough could say the same.

Scott Ferrin wrote in message . ..


As for the Blackjack being faster, the lower speed of the B-1b was
intentional. The original B-1A reached Mach 2.22 which was faster
than the Blackjack. That speed was judged so important that pretty
much nobody cared when they gave it up. As for the Blackjack being
bigger. . .well if you think an aircraft that needs to be 27% heavier
and 83% more powerful to do an inferior job is something to brag
about. . .well, that's your business.


Just to add a few words about their inferior job. Who else can do
this inferior job in this world, but americans and russians? Nobody

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/arti...0/123624.shtml

"... In the early morning of May 14, six Russian strategic bombers,
namely two TU-160Cs and four TU-95MCs belonging to the 37th Strategic
Aviation Army, left the Engels airbase near Saratov city and reached
the Indian Ocean five hours later. There the TU-95 fired two strategic
cruise missiles X-55 (3,000-km range, usually with a nuclear warhead),
which "precisely hit ground targets."

The Tu-160 bombers flew further and, at a 2,500-km distance, simulated
the firing of several X-55 missiles at Diego-Garcia Island. The
targets included a U.S. strategic aviation airbase, a naval base, the
command and control center of U.S. strategic submarines in the Pacific
Ocean, the U.S. electronic reconnaissance center and a nuclear warhead
storage facility.

Several hours later, the six strategic bombers returned to Engels
airbase. According to Russian Air Force Commander-in-Chief Col.-Gen.
Vladimir Mikhailov, 1) Russian strategic bombers "visited" the Indian
Ocean for the first time since 1990 and 2) the Russian top military
command has a definite interest in this region.

On May 15, TU-95 and TU-160 strategic bombers and TU-22 long-range
bombers accomplished military training over the Polar and Pacific
oceans. All the bombers had a full battle load: Each T-95 carried 6
X-55 missiles, each TU-160 12 missiles. The X-55 usually is equipped
with a 200-kiloton nuclear warhead. All the bombers simulated hitting
important U.S and U.K. targets.

However, in accordance with direct orders from Putin to Russian
Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov, this time – in contrast with strategic
aviation maneuvers in 1999 – Russian bombers didn't approach the
borders of Norway, Iceland, Canada, the U.K. and the U.S. This was
done to provide a "friendly environment" for the visits of Secretary
of State Colin Powell to Moscow on May 16 and President Bush to
Petersburg on May 30.

During the maneuvers over the Pacific Ocean on May 15, four TU-22
long-range bombers (two from the 37th AF Army, two from the Russian
Pacific Ocean Fleet) simulated the simultaneous firing of four X-22
anti-ship missiles at the U.S. aircraft Karl Winson, which was moving
at this time from the Yokosoka base in Japan to the coast of North
Korea.

Maneuvers of Russian bombers in the airspace over the three oceans
have been supported by the Russian Northern Fleet, Pacific Fleet,
Strategic Missile Troops, Space Troops and two air force and air
defense armies.

Gen. Mikhailov claimed that a) all goals of the maneuvers were reached
and b) in July and August, the 37th Strategic Aviation Army will hold
similar large-scale maneuvers (apparently against American and British
targets), though the number of participating strategic bombers and
long-range bombers will increase two to three times.

Remarkably, on May 16, a united group of the Russian Navy, compiled
from the vessels from the Pacific Fleet and Black Sea Fleet, held
"enemy [U.S. and U.K.] aircraft groups destruction maneuvers" in the
Indian Ocean.

Concretely, the Moskva missile cruiser launched a P-500 Bazalt
anti-ship cruise missile. This missile has a 480-km radius and is
usually equipped with a 350-kiloton nuclear warhead. The Moskva
missile cruiser has eight cruise missile launchers and a store of 16
Bazalt missiles..."

(Mike) wrote in message . com...
Remember the Soviet "Blackjack" bomber that the U.S.S.R. started to
deploy in the late 1980s?

Wasn't this plane a virtual copy of the American B-1 in many ways?

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/aircraft...60/index.shtml
Though the Tu-160 bears a remarkable resemblance to the American B-1
bomber, the Blackjack is far larger, being the world's largest combat
aircraft. The cockpit contains joysticks similar to those in fighters,
but the Tu-160 does not have any electronic Heads-Up-Displays (HUDs)
like most western aircraft.

What about it's range? Could the BlackJack bomber have taken off in
the Soviet Union and bombed the United States?

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/russia/bomber/tu-160.htm
Range
14.000 km (with a load of 9.000kg)
10.500 km (with a load of 40.000 kg)

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/tu160/
The Tu-16 is capable of carrying the strategic cruise missile Kh-55MS,
which is known in the West by the NATO designation and codename AS-15
Kent.
....
The maximum range is 3,000km, and it is armed with a 200-kiloton
nuclear warhead.

-HJC

In article ,
on 17 Jan 2004 16:29:00 -0800,
Henry J. Cobb attempted to say.....
Though the Tu-160 bears a remarkable resemblance to the American B-1
bomber, the Blackjack is far larger, being the world's largest combat
aircraft.

Say what ?

Larger than a B-52 even ?



--
When dealing with propaganda terminology one sometimes always speaks in
variable absolutes. This is not to be mistaken for an unbiased slant.

Say what ?

Larger than a B-52 even ?

Actually, yes, but only slightly.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

In article ,
on 18 Jan 2004 13:43:18 GMT,
BUFDRVR attempted to say .....

Say what ?

Larger than a B-52 even ?

Actually, yes, but only slightly.


Ah, ok.
For some reason I'd thought it only a bit larger than a B1.



--
When dealing with propaganda terminology one sometimes always speaks in
variable absolutes. This is not to be mistaken for an unbiased slant.

Tank Fixer wrote:

In article ,
on 18 Jan 2004 13:43:18 GMT,
BUFDRVR attempted to say .....

Say what ?

Larger than a B-52 even ?

Actually, yes, but only slightly.

Ah, ok.
For some reason I'd thought it only a bit larger than a B1.

--
When dealing with propaganda terminology one sometimes always speaks in
variable absolutes. This is not to be mistaken for an unbiased slant.

I built a 1:72 scale model of a Tu-160. About 3/4 of the way down the page
at http://www.flankerman.fsnet.co.uk/modl_tu160.html
is a plan view of a Tu-160 with a B-1 superimposed over it.

And down at the bottom of -
http://www.flankerman.fsnet.co.uk/modl_tu160_page3.html
there are photos of the finished model Tu-160 next to a model B-1 and Tu-22M
Backfire for size comparison.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++
Ken Duffey - Flanker Freak & Russian Aviation Enthusiast
Flankers Website - http://www.flankers.co.uk/
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++

Ah, ok.
For some reason I'd thought it only a bit larger than a B1.

I beleive about 25% bigger


Ron
Pilot/Wildland Firefighter

Tank Fixer wrote in message nk.net...
In article ,
on 17 Jan 2004 16:29:00 -0800,
Henry J. Cobb attempted to say.....
Though the Tu-160 bears a remarkable resemblance to the American B-1
bomber, the Blackjack is far larger, being the world's largest combat
aircraft.

Say what ?

Larger than a B-52 even ?

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/russia/bomber/tu-160.htm
Maximum take-off weight 275.000 kg

http://globalsecurity.org/wmd/systems/b-52-specs.htm
Maximum Takeoff Weight: 488,000 pounds (219,600 kilograms)

-HJC

(Mike) wrote in message . com...
Remember the Soviet "Blackjack" bomber that the U.S.S.R. started to
deploy in the late 1980s?

Wasn't this plane a virtual copy of the American B-1 in many ways?

What about it's range? Could the BlackJack bomber have taken off in
the Soviet Union and bombed the United States?

Or was it closer to a medium-range bomber like the "Backfire"?

How interesting you should mention it. See
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3406043.stm for today's BBC article
on the B1-ski.

Pondering,
Yossarian