Idiot Pilot Runs Out of Gas - Lands Cessna on I-81 - CAN'T BECHARGED!!

"Dana M. Hague" d(dash)m(dash)hague(at)comcast(dot)net wrote in message
...
On Thu, 3 Apr 2008 17:41:23 -0500, "Maxwell" luv2^fly99@cox.^net
wrote:

If he ran out of fuel on his first solo, I would think the FAA would be
looking for his CFI.

The news report said "first solo", but it also said he was returning
from another city. Reporters usually get it wrong on aviation
matters... more likely it was his first solo cross country, which is a
very different thing.


Yeah, I was thinking that too. He might also have said first solo cross
country, and the reporter dropped the modifier. It's really anyone's guess.

Just makes a better story "spin" it a bit.

On Fri, 4 Apr 2008 17:22:08 -0500, "Maxwell" luv2^fly99@cox.^net
wrote:

Just makes a better story "spin" it a bit.


Do you know a reporter that knows the difference between "first solo"
and "first solo cross-country"? I don't!

On a side note...

Dana, My plane has been grounded since Jan. 20, due to a bad jump
start by my co-owner... Airworthy soon!

"B A R R Y" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 4 Apr 2008 17:22:08 -0500, "Maxwell" luv2^fly99@cox.^net
wrote:

Just makes a better story "spin" it a bit.


Do you know a reporter that knows the difference between "first solo"
and "first solo cross-country"? I don't!


No, I don't either. That would be a real small omission compared to some we
have seen.

All things considered, that is probably, more like than not, what happened
this time.

On Fri, 04 Apr 2008 18:49:49 -0400, B A R R Y
wrote:

On a side note...

Dana, My plane has been grounded since Jan. 20, due to a bad jump
start by my co-owner... Airworthy soon!

Eek! What happened? Sounds like he shoulda used the "Armstrong"
starter!

My plane's at Goodspeed now, until my name makes it to the top of the
list at Chester.

-Dana

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Tina wrote:
The state cops could file all kinds of charges -- no plate, no
inspection sticker, blocking traffic, the list goes on and on. All
charges are of course optional.

The Virginia State Police do have a four page "Commonwealth of Virginia
Aviation Accident" report. Of course, most cops have no clue as to what
aviation is. I spent 20 minutes helping the trouper fill out the
report on my engine failure (and I didn't even land on the highway).

Tina wrote:
The state cops could file all kinds of charges -- no plate, no
inspection sticker, blocking traffic, the list goes on and on. All
charges are of course optional.

It's not a ground vehicle so such laws wouldn't appear to apply. And for
the cops to cite for blocking traffic might be considered inimical to
safety, as it would not be wise to put another decision burden on pilots in
future emergency situations.

The real issue is, what actions will the FAA take. If the fuel
exhaustion was an unforced error on the part of the PIC, it should be
worth a few square inches of his hide, or his wallet.

For an idea of some actual cases of penalties applied for fuel exahustion,
go to this web site and enter "fuel exhaustion" (but without the quotes) in
the "Words & Phrases" search field (and make sure "Aviation Orders" is
checked):

http://www.ntsb.gov/alj/O_n_O/query.asp

I get 10 hits. Penalties appear generally to be suspension of certificate
for several months. (The web site appears to only return cases that were
appealed.)

On Apr 3, 8:40*pm, Jim Logajan wrote:

For an idea of some actual cases of penalties applied for fuel exahustion,
go to this web site and enter "fuel exhaustion" (but without the quotes) in
the "Words & Phrases" search field (and make sure "Aviation Orders" is
checked):

http://www.ntsb.gov/alj/O_n_O/query.asp

I get 10 hits. Penalties appear generally to be suspension of certificate
for several months. (The web site appears to only return cases that were
appealed.)

This forum should be a good place to share experiences, but with the
tendency to pile on people that make mistakes, I've been hesitant to
share my recent fuel exhaustion experience. Well, I'll go ahead and be
the group's "Idiot".

Took off on a night flight in the Cherokee last November. I
incorrectly remembered how much fuel I'd used on the previous flight
by 20 minutes. I planned for what I believed to be a 45 minute
reserve. Headwinds increased sooner along my path than I expected. By
the time I reached my destination, the reserve had dwindled to what I
believed was 30 minutes. I clicked my mic 5 times to turn on runway
lights and they did not come on. Turns out this airport took 7 clicks
to turn on. I'd heard of taking 7 for a certain intensity, but in my
30 years had never run into one that took 7 clicks to turn on. Had I
stayed in the area, I'd have probably tried that next, but I knew
there was another airport 12 minutes away whose lights stayed on, so I
headed for it. Unfortunately the 30 minutes of fuel I thought I had
was only 10.

Believe me, you don't want a stopped engine on a dark, dark, dark
night over Missouri. Nothing but lakes and trees. Fortunately, we just
barely made it to a rural highway, where traffic was all going in one
direction. Made a perfect landing and coasted under a power line
across the highway. Looking at satellite pics later, we saw that 30
seconds earlier we'd have been in trees and a minute earlier in a
lake. By the grace of God we walked away with no injuries or damage.
The state police were extremely helpful in taking us 3 miles to the
airport for fuel, checking a mile of highway for obstructions and
blocking it off for us to take off.

The FAA alleged:
91.103 PIC not familiar with all available info
91.13a Careless operation
91.151a2 Began flight without meeting fuel requirements

I filed NASA form. I was very cooperative with the FAA, writing out a
very detailed report on exactly what happened. Had several very
cordial discussions with them. They talked about possible actions
including suspension. After letting me sweat for a few weeks, they
went with a warning letter that will be in my file for 2 years and
then expunged if I get in no more trouble. Obviously, the fact that
there was no injury or damage and that it didn't make the news were in
my favor.

On the other hand, I know a person who made a daytime landing on a
highway. FAA guy saw him putting in fuel on the evening news. They
were going to warn him, but he told them, "F-- you, there's no law
against being stupid", and he got a 90 day suspension.
--
Gene Seibel
Gene & Sue's Aeroplanes - http://pad39a.com/gene/planes.html
Because we fly, we envy no one.

Gene Seibel wrote:

Took off on a night flight in the Cherokee last November. I
incorrectly remembered how much fuel I'd used on the previous flight
by 20 minutes. I planned for what I believed to be a 45 minute
reserve. Headwinds increased sooner along my path than I expected.

[Snipped for brevity.]

THANK YOU for sharing your experience, Gene.

-chris/Portland

Gene Seibel wrote:
This forum should be a good place to share experiences, but with the
tendency to pile on people that make mistakes, I've been hesitant to
share my recent fuel exhaustion experience. Well, I'll go ahead and be
the group's "Idiot".


There's those who have and those that will. Folks want to stay in the latter
group as long as possible. To those who insist they could never make that same
mistake, I just shake my head. Usually it's a number of circumstances that come
together for that Perfect Storm to blow in your direction. And yes, I am in the
former group.... having run a C-210 out of gas after a 45 minute flight with an
hour and a half's worth of fuel on board. Or at least I thought I had.


I filed NASA form. I was very cooperative with the FAA, writing out a
very detailed report on exactly what happened. Had several very
cordial discussions with them. They talked about possible actions
including suspension. After letting me sweat for a few weeks, they
went with a warning letter that will be in my file for 2 years and
then expunged if I get in no more trouble. Obviously, the fact that
there was no injury or damage and that it didn't make the news were in
my favor.

On the other hand, I know a person who made a daytime landing on a
highway. FAA guy saw him putting in fuel on the evening news. They
were going to warn him, but he told them, "F-- you, there's no law
against being stupid", and he got a 90 day suspension.


There's a lot to be said for good manners and not tugging on Superman's cape.
Like you, I was very polite and apologetic. Like you, they made all kinds of
ominous rumblings about suspensions, etc. Like you, I got off with a warning.

And as the other fellow found out, there *is* a law against being stupid. Good
manners never go out of fashion: not in front of cops; not in front of the FAA.
They have what you want: forgiveness. Best not to be an ass about things.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com wrote in message
...

And as the other fellow found out, there *is* a law against being stupid.
Good manners never go out of fashion: not in front of cops; not in front
of the FAA. They have what you want: forgiveness. Best not to be an ass
about things.


Excellent advice Mort.