George Patton Jr is not George Patton III

ubject: George Patton Jr is not George Patton III
From: "Tarver Engineering"
Date: 1/31/04 8:01 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: George Patton Jr is not George Patton III
From: (BUFDRVR)
Date: 1/31/04 5:39 AM Pacific

Not by a long shot. In fact nowhere close. And it is disengenious to say
Patton
said it and then when challenged say, "Oh not that Patton". There is
only
ONE
PATTON.

What a crock !! You know Art, your posts look more and more pathetic
everyday.

Then don't open them. And you know where you can stick your personal
insults.

eading men in Vietnam was a damn sight harder than leading men in the
open fields of France and George S. Patton *III* is more qualified to

discuss
leadership in Vietnam than his father, even had his father liv

How how hell would you know., You never led men anywhere.

Patton turned an army moving East to the North and broke through the
Bastogne
salient ending the Battle of the Bulge and bringing the last German thrust
to
an end.

Let me clue you Art, the ten days after the end of the bulge was the
heaviest fighting there. The 101st didn't need saving.




So claim the 101st. In fact as one paratrooper was heard to say, " The Germans
have us surounded. Poor *******s" The truth is the 101st was running out of
ammo for their Garands and damned hungry as food was running low. Or so told
me a number of those guys after the battle. And they thanked the AAC much for
dropping supplies stuff. especially rifle ammo. We were in the air constantly
during those two weeks hitting panzers outside Bastogne and cutting roads and
bridges to stop the Germans from resupplying.
But I would never even suggest to anyone from the 101st that they needed our
help in any way. ((:-))



Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

ArtKramr wrote:



How how hell would you know., You never led men anywhere.




Just out of idle curiosity, since this off topic thread seems likely to
continue, where and when did you lead men into combat? From what I have
seen of your postings your most common reference to leadership seems to
have been "I did as I was told."


Dave

"Dave Holford" wrote in message
...


ArtKramr wrote:



How how hell would you know., You never led men anywhere.




Just out of idle curiosity, since this off topic thread seems likely to
continue, where and when did you lead men into combat? From what I have
seen of your postings your most common reference to leadership seems to
have been "I did as I was told."

Compared to BUFDRVR who, IIRC, has indeed "led men into combat" as an AC.
Art continues to baffle and dismay.

Brooks



Dave

Subject: George Patton Jr is not George Patton III
From: "Kevin Brooks"
Date: 1/31/04 10:07 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:


"Dave Holford" wrote in message
.. .


ArtKramr wrote:



How how hell would you know., You never led men anywhere.




Just out of idle curiosity, since this off topic thread seems likely to
continue, where and when did you lead men into combat? From what I have
seen of your postings your most common reference to leadership seems to
have been "I did as I was told."

Compared to BUFDRVR who, IIRC, has indeed "led men into combat" as an AC.
Art continues to baffle and dismay.

Brooks



Dave



Since you did nothing you are out of the loop.



Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

How how hell would you know., You never led men anywhere.

No? I'm glad I didn't screw up whatever it was I was doing because there would
have been problems had I suggested I was not leading anyone.....

Patton turned an army moving East to the North and broke through the Bastogne

snip Blah, blah, blah. Great, now tell us why his son who served in Vietnam
would not have been more qualified than his father to comment on Kerry's
post-war actions.

to resupply Bastogne from the air and the 344th was there in
force. Something you know zero about

I've got two degrees in 20th Century European history so I believe I know more
than "zero" about Patton's acheivements in WW II. Oh, I'm sorry, if you didn't
actually fight in WW II, you know "zero", I forgot.

so it your posts that are a pile of
pretenious pathetic crap


Using that logic, so are all of yours not dealing with WW II, in fact, you are
unqualified to comment on Kerry's service in Vietnam because "you weren't
there". Better keep your mouth shut on Yugoslavia, Iraq and Afghanistan as
well. Being engaged by surface-to-air missiles, no comment from you. Jet
engines, no comment from Art. I could go on, but you get the point.

PLONK

I doubt it....


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

"BUFDRVR" wrote in message
What a crock !! You know Art, your posts look more and more pathetic
everyday.

Most were aware of this for years.

(BUFDRVR) wrote:
(ArtKramr) wrote:

There is only ONE PATTON.

Amen. And after it won seven Academy Awards in 1970, any sequel to
thee one and only PATTON will have some mighty big shoes to fill.

What a crock !! You know Art, your posts look more and more pathetic
everyday.

Gotta disagree there. Since he quit posting under his "Autocollimator"
alter ego (but only AFTER I exposed him as the abusive, phony *******
that unfortunately he has become) his postings as "ArtKramr" have
actually improved just a titch.

We all owe Kramer and his generation who fought in the Big One an
eternal debt of gratitude, however, contrary to his twisted moral
calculus, his serving in WW2 doesn't automatically give him carte
blanche to blatently disrespect and dish out abuse to those of us
who "weren't there."

Agreed Mike- and furthermore, (getting back to the topic of the thread), Art
is consistent in applying the "I fought in combat therefore nobody can
quesiton my opinion on ANYTHING" equally to himself and Senator Kerry.

The criticism against Kerry (and Art) is not about what they did in combat .
.. . the criticism is about what they did AFTER serving (perhaps honorably;
perhaps not; irrelevant. Kerry was a sanctimonious, hypocritical,
traitorous son of a bitch AFTER he came home. Like Art, eh deserves no
special proptection for being an ass AFTER performing his service.)

Yes, Art has always used the "How dare you question me I served in combat"
argument to defend his wrong-headed, ignorant, socialist, communist,
traitorous, unconstitutional and irrational rantings since his very first "I
deserve free medicine/health care/rent/big screen tv/etc" posting int his
forum.

True- a lot of good men served, and served well, and died for the freedoms
of the French and British in WWII. However, a lot of greedy, stupid,
bigoted, SOBs did as well. That's what differentiates today's armed forces
from those of yesteryear. Just being there (back then) doesn't buy you a
"free pass" for all of eternity.

Steve Swartz



"Mike Marron" wrote in message
...
(BUFDRVR) wrote:
(ArtKramr) wrote:

There is only ONE PATTON.

Amen. And after it won seven Academy Awards in 1970, any sequel to
thee one and only PATTON will have some mighty big shoes to fill.

What a crock !! You know Art, your posts look more and more pathetic
everyday.

Gotta disagree there. Since he quit posting under his "Autocollimator"
alter ego (but only AFTER I exposed him as the abusive, phony *******
that unfortunately he has become) his postings as "ArtKramr" have
actually improved just a titch.

We all owe Kramer and his generation who fought in the Big One an
eternal debt of gratitude, however, contrary to his twisted moral
calculus, his serving in WW2 doesn't automatically give him carte
blanche to blatently disrespect and dish out abuse to those of us
who "weren't there."

If you are so bothered by what he has to say, then don't read his posts.
Can't get any simpler than that.

And if Art, or yourself, is so bothered by our attempt to keep Art's attitude
in check, you also are free to not read our retorts.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

Hi BUFDRVR

I don't recall ever saying anything about being bothered. Actually I find
it for the most part, highly entertaining. Nothing anyone says or does is
going to change Art's opnions, so why bother? Unlike some nameless
pretendtobes and wannabes who frequent RAM, Art has something concrete to
offer through his personal experiences. I do not always agree with Art.
Sure he can be casutic and his pig headedness just a bit too much to handle
at times, but the fact remains, "he was there" and we were not! Even if f
you ignore everything he says about post-war military aviation, Art still
makes a valuable contribution to this site.

I meant to ask you if you ever came across a BUFF driver by the name of Gary
Lundberg. We served in the same unit together (722nd SUS) seven years ago.
I lost track of him after he PCS'd to Minot.