Feds Want to Equipe Gliders With Transponders and Radios

On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 21:27:54 -0700, "BT" wrote
in :

Larry.. DO you fly gliders?

Not in several years.

From these statements it would appear that you do not.
Gliders may or may not have electrical systems, they do not "generate
power", but stored battery power of a limited life span.
Gliders are small, batteries are small, everything needs to be small.


None of the gliders I have flown have had electrical systems, small or
otherwise.

NTSB "recommends", FAA cannot mandate without a comment period and a change
to many CFRs.

True, but I'm thinking that it is in our best interest to provide some
guidance to the FAA before they draft their NPRM; hopefully proactive
will be better than reactive.

Technology is coming for the small transponder, along with ATS-B.

Are you able to provide any specific information about that
technology?

Why would I put a 50# $15K ATS-B system in a $15K glider.

Of course, it's worse than that. There would need to be antennas,
cabling, batteries, switches, circuit breakers, ammeter, ... It
wouldn't be very cost effective to equip gliders used for training
with all that, not to mention the resulting degraded flight
performance and maintenance requirements.

Small transponders now are about $1300 plus antenna and installation. It can
be done.

Can you provide more specific information about them?


My issue is not with TCAS equipped aircraft, but with smaller GA aircraft
that do not have TCAS, do not have a Garmin 430 with TIS (or equivalent) and
are not talking to ATC. It does no good to have a transponder, when the
aircraft causing the traffic conflict is not talking to anyone. Just sitting
there FDH and not even paying attention in the traffic pattern.


I'm not sure if there is a solution to that issue short of having a
control tower at _all_ fields. Have you got any ideas?

Last Saturday we had at least 4 transient aircraft attempt to land at the
airport with 15 to 20 knot tail winds, and against the flow of traffic.

While not very smart, it's not a violation of regulations, is it?

They could not even listen up to the radio to figure out the runway in use,
or even look at a wind sock or a huge flag and see the 15knt winds and make
up their own mind about the landing runway.

I find the level of competence, diligence, and responsibility of some
airmen to be disappointing, and it's not just the "hobby" pilots. One
wonders how they manage to pass their biennial flight reviews.


What makes you think a transponder in a glider would make any difference.


Ha ha!

Hey, it's not me raising the transponder issue; it's the NTSB.
http://www.ntsb.gov/recs/letters/2008/a08_10_13.pdf

And local ATC can see my non-transponder equipped glider just fine, when I
am high enough for radar coverage.

How much metal and/or carbon-fiber does your glider contain?

It's called raw radar skin paint.

In you experience, doesn't the controller normally need to be asked to
set that mode on his scope? Wouldn't your glider be invisible to ATC
under normal circumstances without you calling and informing the
controller you are there?

And yes, I am looking at the requirements
(Not Govt' requirement but electical and space in the aircraft requirements)
and feasibility for installing transponders in our gliders.


If the NTSB gets their way, there will be many more glider owners
doing the same.

Larry.. it's been a few years since I've been on the ATC side of the radar..
but "we" had to monitor "primary" returns when working low altitude sectors,
Below FL180. I've listened in on the local TRACON ATC frequency when flying
in the "airline approach area" and yes, they are issuing "traffic, altitude
unknown, could be a glider", and I did not call them first to give them a
heads up. This has been in Grob 103s and LS-4, fiberglass with metal pushrod
controls.

Becker Transponders are very popular with glider pilots, I missed on the
price.. it's closer to $1900 plus antenna and install.
http://www.beckerusa.com/products/de...php?search=557



B


"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 21:27:54 -0700, "BT" wrote
in :

Larry.. DO you fly gliders?

Not in several years.

From these statements it would appear that you do not.
Gliders may or may not have electrical systems, they do not "generate
power", but stored battery power of a limited life span.
Gliders are small, batteries are small, everything needs to be small.


None of the gliders I have flown have had electrical systems, small or
otherwise.

NTSB "recommends", FAA cannot mandate without a comment period and a
change
to many CFRs.

True, but I'm thinking that it is in our best interest to provide some
guidance to the FAA before they draft their NPRM; hopefully proactive
will be better than reactive.

Technology is coming for the small transponder, along with ATS-B.

Are you able to provide any specific information about that
technology?

Why would I put a 50# $15K ATS-B system in a $15K glider.

Of course, it's worse than that. There would need to be antennas,
cabling, batteries, switches, circuit breakers, ammeter, ... It
wouldn't be very cost effective to equip gliders used for training
with all that, not to mention the resulting degraded flight
performance and maintenance requirements.

Small transponders now are about $1300 plus antenna and installation. It
can
be done.

Can you provide more specific information about them?


My issue is not with TCAS equipped aircraft, but with smaller GA aircraft
that do not have TCAS, do not have a Garmin 430 with TIS (or equivalent)
and
are not talking to ATC. It does no good to have a transponder, when the
aircraft causing the traffic conflict is not talking to anyone. Just
sitting
there FDH and not even paying attention in the traffic pattern.


I'm not sure if there is a solution to that issue short of having a
control tower at _all_ fields. Have you got any ideas?

Last Saturday we had at least 4 transient aircraft attempt to land at the
airport with 15 to 20 knot tail winds, and against the flow of traffic.

While not very smart, it's not a violation of regulations, is it?

They could not even listen up to the radio to figure out the runway in
use,
or even look at a wind sock or a huge flag and see the 15knt winds and
make
up their own mind about the landing runway.

I find the level of competence, diligence, and responsibility of some
airmen to be disappointing, and it's not just the "hobby" pilots. One
wonders how they manage to pass their biennial flight reviews.


What makes you think a transponder in a glider would make any difference.

"BT" wrote:

Technology is coming for the small transponder, along with ATS-B. Why would
I put a 50# $15K ATS-B system in a $15K glider.

I suspect that you mean "ADS-B Out"

Reference: http://tinyurl.com/33k9m2

You will see responses from me. I am adamantly against it.

Ron Lee