AV gas prices

"Stealth Pilot" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 21:13:16 -0700, "Stuart & Kathryn Fields"
wrote:

Well it has happened. Local 100LL is $5.60/ gal and is not expected to
decrease. Is there anyone out there using Supreme MoGas in a Lycoming
0320
with 8.5:1 compression? If so what ignition timing changes were needed if
any?

thanks
Stu Fields


bloody hell that is $1 47.9 cents per litre.

how the hell do you get it that cheap?

locally it is $aus1.64 per litre. actually with the last rise it is
probably $1.70 plus.

hey stewie its not $1000 per litre. get a life and go flying.

Stealth (still flying) Pilot

Hell Stealth, the problem is that I still remember getting a T-34 for $12/hr
wet in an age where the restrictions were much less. Now it costs more and
the flying is getting to be a contest of obeying the regulations. There is
obviously going to be a time when the cost outweighs the enjoyment and I
have a whole raft of interests that have been put on the back burner while I
dabble in aviation. My dabbling started in 1954. Maybe it is dying of
natural causes.

Stu

On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 09:01:36 -0700, "Stuart & Kathryn Fields"
wrote:


"Stealth Pilot" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 21:13:16 -0700, "Stuart & Kathryn Fields"
wrote:

Well it has happened. Local 100LL is $5.60/ gal and is not expected to
decrease. Is there anyone out there using Supreme MoGas in a Lycoming
0320
with 8.5:1 compression? If so what ignition timing changes were needed if
any?

thanks
Stu Fields


bloody hell that is $1 47.9 cents per litre.

how the hell do you get it that cheap?

locally it is $aus1.64 per litre. actually with the last rise it is
probably $1.70 plus.

hey stewie its not $1000 per litre. get a life and go flying.

Stealth (still flying) Pilot

Hell Stealth, the problem is that I still remember getting a T-34 for $12/hr
wet in an age where the restrictions were much less. Now it costs more and
the flying is getting to be a contest of obeying the regulations. There is
obviously going to be a time when the cost outweighs the enjoyment and I
have a whole raft of interests that have been put on the back burner while I
dabble in aviation. My dabbling started in 1954. Maybe it is dying of
natural causes.

Stu


when I learnt to fly in the 70's the entire hour with instructor cost
me $aus15.
I earnt $9,200 per year.

if I blow up the costs and income figures to the present they are
still in the same ballpark ratio.

I remember locally when fuel hit 62 cents per litre. avgas accidently
became a cent a litre cheaper than avgas. just about the entire
airfield swapped from mogas to avgas.
the stupidity of using mogas when avgas is available led me to
realise that we focus on the pessimism of accountancy far too much.
locally fuel has tripled in price in the last few years. I still drive
to work, I still survive, the price of fuel in reality is just a cost.
so what, I dont buy papers and many magazines any more.

I'm building a turbulent which should see me with some cheap flying.
even cheaper than the tailwind.

I have two friends who show the way. if you want to do it just get on
with it. one is building a 2,000hp powered experimental and the other
has just bought a Yak 18T.

In a way I'm glad that you guys are giving up flying. that'll leave
more fuel for us!
bwahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahaah!

Stealth Pilot

I've got the same engine in my plane, it's an O-320 D2C, but there are
other number series with the same compression ratio in the 160hp
class. That engine is listed on Peterson's mogas STC site as one that
is approved for premium unleaded autofuel. So you shouldn't run into
any problems as far as detonation goes, vapor lock is another issue,
and is different in each aircraft type. Just the other day a pilot at
my local airport said that if the gas has the common 10% ethanol
added, it's vapor lock potential goes up a lot. I'm not sure about
those facts, but I think it has more to do with fuel system design.
Gravity flow systems seem almost immuned to that problem. With wing
tanks below the carb, the best setup is to have fuel pumps at the tank
"pushing" the fuel to the carb. Rather than the more common setup of
the fuel pump in the engine compartment sucking the fuel from the
tank. Peterson's website has a good dissertation about homebuilts
worth reading, in regards to fuel system design to help prevent vapor
lock.

On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 21:13:16 -0700, "Stuart & Kathryn Fields"
wrote:

Well it has happened. Local 100LL is $5.60/ gal and is not expected to
decrease. Is there anyone out there using Supreme MoGas in a Lycoming 0320
with 8.5:1 compression? If so what ignition timing changes were needed if
any?

thanks
Stu Fields

here's what Peterson's site says about homebuilts:

HOMEBUILTS

Homebuilders can improve the fuel system of an airplane under
construction in a number of ways to reduce the likelihood of vapor
lock. NASA vents incorporated into the vent system help provide
positive pressure. Fuel pumps should be installed in the fuel tanks,
or as close to the fuel tank as possible, and should be of the maximum
pressure and flow rating allowable for the carb. Any 90° fittings
should be replaced with 45° fittings, or tubing with very smooth
gradual bends. Fittings should be made as tight as possible to prevent
air from entering the line. Lines should be secured to prevent
vibration & harmonics. Fuel lines in the engine compartment should be
insulated to prevent heat from soaking through to the fuel. Fuel lines
should not be located in close proximity to hot spots in the engine
compartment.

Composite materials used for the construction of some homebuilts may
react negatively when they come in contact with fuel. The early
Vari-eze homebuilts had a tendancy for the spar to come apart after
fuel tank leaks dribbled fuel onto the spar. Homebuilders should
contact the kit manufacturer to see if material used throughout the
airplane is compatible with the type of fuel you will be using and to
receive other recommendations.

Is it true that the Peterson STC prohibits any alcohol in the autogas?

"Sliker" wrote in message
...
I've got the same engine in my plane, it's an O-320 D2C, but there are
other number series with the same compression ratio in the 160hp
class. That engine is listed on Peterson's mogas STC site as one that
is approved for premium unleaded autofuel. So you shouldn't run into
any problems as far as detonation goes, vapor lock is another issue,
and is different in each aircraft type. Just the other day a pilot at
my local airport said that if the gas has the common 10% ethanol
added, it's vapor lock potential goes up a lot. I'm not sure about
those facts, but I think it has more to do with fuel system design.
Gravity flow systems seem almost immuned to that problem. With wing
tanks below the carb, the best setup is to have fuel pumps at the tank
"pushing" the fuel to the carb. Rather than the more common setup of
the fuel pump in the engine compartment sucking the fuel from the
tank. Peterson's website has a good dissertation about homebuilts
worth reading, in regards to fuel system design to help prevent vapor
lock.

On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 21:13:16 -0700, "Stuart & Kathryn Fields"
wrote:

Well it has happened. Local 100LL is $5.60/ gal and is not expected to
decrease. Is there anyone out there using Supreme MoGas in a Lycoming
0320
with 8.5:1 compression? If so what ignition timing changes were needed if
any?

thanks
Stu Fields

Yes, but why in the hell did you have to quote the entire previous message
to ask a one-line question?

Jim

--
"If you think you can, or think you can't, you're right."
--Henry Ford


"Bill Daniels" bildan@comcast-dot-net wrote in message
...

Is it true that the Peterson STC prohibits any alcohol in the autogas?

RST Engineering wrote:
Yes, but why in the hell did you have to quote the entire previous message
to ask a one-line question?

Jim


Probably for the same reason that you wrote a full sentence for a one
word answer. :-)

Matt

On Apr 30, 9:07 am, Matt Whiting wrote:
RST Engineering wrote:
Yes, but why in the hell did you have to quote the entire previous message
to ask a one-line question?

Jim

Probably for the same reason that you wrote a full sentence for a one
word answer. :-)

Matt

.... and top-posted for good measure!

"Sliker" wrote in message
...
I've got the same engine in my plane, it's an O-320 D2C, but there are
other number series with the same compression ratio in the 160hp
class. That engine is listed on Peterson's mogas STC site as one that
is approved for premium unleaded autofuel. So you shouldn't run into
any problems as far as detonation goes, vapor lock is another issue,
and is different in each aircraft type. Just the other day a pilot at
my local airport said that if the gas has the common 10% ethanol
added, it's vapor lock potential goes up a lot. I'm not sure about
those facts, but I think it has more to do with fuel system design.
Gravity flow systems seem almost immuned to that problem. With wing
tanks below the carb, the best setup is to have fuel pumps at the tank
"pushing" the fuel to the carb. Rather than the more common setup of
the fuel pump in the engine compartment sucking the fuel from the
tank. Peterson's website has a good dissertation about homebuilts
worth reading, in regards to fuel system design to help prevent vapor
lock.

On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 21:13:16 -0700, "Stuart & Kathryn Fields"
wrote:

Well it has happened. Local 100LL is $5.60/ gal and is not expected to
decrease. Is there anyone out there using Supreme MoGas in a Lycoming
0320
with 8.5:1 compression? If so what ignition timing changes were needed if
any?

thanks
Stu Fields

Sliker: Thanks for the answer. Most of the rest of the responses ignored
my question but assumed that I needed either a course in accounting or
fossel fuel economics, or some barroom counseling in an attempt to reduce my
grief over the increased fuel prices.
I looked into the Peterson site and got a bunch of useful info. I've also
found several University studies that have looked into alternative fuels to
and including 100% ethanol. More studying is required.
Somewhere in my excellent memory that I have limited access to, is an
anecdote of some guy who has been using MoGas in his Lycoming equipped
Stinson for quite a few years. The ethanol aspect was not discussed and his
history certainly started before the ethanol additive.
For the very near future I will be mixing Supreme with 100LL until the LL
runs out. When I switch to 100% Supreme, I will be hovering my helicopter
for a few hours and keeping track of the CHT, EGT, MP etc.

Thanks again for useful response.

stu

Stuart & Kathryn Fields wrote:

I looked into the Peterson site and got a bunch of useful info.

Stu, did you look at this page on the Peterson site?