Germany invented it. We shot it down

Or laughed at it after the war. They really should have mass produced the
piloted version of the V-1. Just think, we could have killed more pilots that
way, the Nazis would have wasted money and material and, most imporantly, put
them in the air flying a straight line and making an easy target.

Actually they did build a bunch (some estimates say as many as 250) but
it seems that Nazi ideology got in the way of implementing operations,
as they could not decide on targets sufficiently valuable to sacrifice
Aryan blood for.

"steve gallacci" wrote in message
...

Or laughed at it after the war. They really should have mass produced
the
piloted version of the V-1. Just think, we could have killed more pilots
that
way, the Nazis would have wasted money and material and, most
imporantly, put
them in the air flying a straight line and making an easy target.

Actually they did build a bunch (some estimates say as many as 250) but
it seems that Nazi ideology got in the way of implementing operations,
as they could not decide on targets sufficiently valuable to sacrifice
Aryan blood for.

Between planes like Mistel, commandos like Skorzeny, and sheer number of
targets, perhaps there were other reasons. And they didn't institute direck
Kamikaze style attacks as a policy. One of the amazing things to me about
German aircraft projects in WW2 was how fragmented things often were,
multiple teams and such, and so many projects competing for resources. Then
they often had problems with leadership interfering with use of weapons (A
la the Me-262.) In the end, it was not just allied productivity but the
organization of their companies, labor and project bureaus that helped their
airmen at the front. Examples like Ford converting to aircraft production
and improving things on some planes, etc. Plus the sharing of the Merlin
engine by the British and high-test gas by the USA. Russia also got stuff
like the DC-3 design. And of course the US/UK Manharttan Project. The Allied
organization helped immensely to get scientists, designers and workers the
stuff they needed and prioritise things.

One of the things applicapable to this thread was the US taking the
conventional V-1 design and producing weapons with the idea of using them
against Japan, but they never did, the war ending before they could be used.

DEP

Subject: Germany invented it. We shot it down
From: "David E. Powell"
Date: 2/19/04 6:24 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

Between planes like Mistel, commandos like Skorzeny,

You might be interested in visiting my website and reading about the day I had
lunch with Skorzeny. Just click on:

Lunch With SS STURMGRUPENNFUHRER OTTO SKORZENY



Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

Japan also had a version of the V1 it was piloted though, sorry cant
remember the name they gave it.
"David E. Powell" wrote in message
s.com...
"steve gallacci" wrote in message
...

Or laughed at it after the war. They really should have mass produced
the
piloted version of the V-1. Just think, we could have killed more
pilots
that
way, the Nazis would have wasted money and material and, most
imporantly, put
them in the air flying a straight line and making an easy target.

Actually they did build a bunch (some estimates say as many as 250) but
it seems that Nazi ideology got in the way of implementing operations,
as they could not decide on targets sufficiently valuable to sacrifice
Aryan blood for.

Between planes like Mistel, commandos like Skorzeny, and sheer number of
targets, perhaps there were other reasons. And they didn't institute
direck
Kamikaze style attacks as a policy. One of the amazing things to me about
German aircraft projects in WW2 was how fragmented things often were,
multiple teams and such, and so many projects competing for resources.
Then
they often had problems with leadership interfering with use of weapons (A
la the Me-262.) In the end, it was not just allied productivity but the
organization of their companies, labor and project bureaus that helped
their
airmen at the front. Examples like Ford converting to aircraft production
and improving things on some planes, etc. Plus the sharing of the Merlin
engine by the British and high-test gas by the USA. Russia also got stuff
like the DC-3 design. And of course the US/UK Manharttan Project. The
Allied
organization helped immensely to get scientists, designers and workers the
stuff they needed and prioritise things.

One of the things applicapable to this thread was the US taking the
conventional V-1 design and producing weapons with the idea of using them
against Japan, but they never did, the war ending before they could be
used.

DEP

(B2431) wrote in message ...
From: "Keith Willshaw"
Date: 2/19/2004 10:21 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Nuff said.



Or bombed it

Keith


Or laughed at it after the war. They really should have mass produced the
piloted version of the V-1. Just think, we could have killed more pilots that
way, the Nazis would have wasted money and material and, most imporantly, put
them in the air flying a straight line and making an easy target.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired


The Reichenberg was a effectively a near suicide weapon but the
Germans did take care that it wasn't a forgone conclusion. Unlike the
Japanese Baka in which the pilot was sealed in his cockpit it did have
an escape system: parachute, terminal autopilot and a two seat two
cockit versions were made to train pilots presumably with a simulated
escape.

The As 014 pulse jet was continiously tweeked to improve its speed.
With a slightly lightend warload (like the latter buzz bombs) and the
tweeked engines which had shown themselves to work at 495mph I expect
a speed of 495mph would have been possible or at least necessary for
the Reichberg to work. Enough to evade interception. Dodging radar
directed guns with proximity fuses might have been more difficult but
even there the weapon would have been capable of some degree of
weaving. Still such a weapon if it can be made survivable enough for
say a 33% or more hit rate and the targets are chosen carefully IT is
a mathematically sensible use of resources if it destroys and kills
more than it costs. Me 109s in the last stages of the war had an
attrition rate of 30%. It takes balls to get in the air in that
situation and in some ways their missions would have been almost more
pointless than a suicide mission.

If it ever got down to the wire do you think the allies would be
capable of producing the men for this kind of mission? Sure WWII
aircrew had around the 50% chance of completing a tour of duty (about
the same as Ed Rasimus had flying thuds over Vietnam). but to face
odds like that or like 95% on a single mission? Today I don't you
could find such people.

"Eunometic" wrote in message
om...


If it ever got down to the wire do you think the allies would be
capable of producing the men for this kind of mission? Sure WWII
aircrew had around the 50% chance of completing a tour of duty (about
the same as Ed Rasimus had flying thuds over Vietnam). but to face
odds like that or like 95% on a single mission? Today I don't you
could find such people.

Of course you can. Young people can always be manipulated by
cynical propaganda and its disturbingly easy to turn idealism
into fanatacism. Thats how they recruit suicide bombers fer
crying out loud.

As for WW2 there were many missions flown by allied aircrew
where they didnt expect to come back

The Swordfish aircrew who attacked the Italian fleet at Taranto
expected to take 90% losses, those who attacked S&G
during the Channel Dash kniew their chances of survival were
essentially nil

Keith

They may not have used pure aryan blood for these missions, but they did
have many fanatics from the western U.S.S.R. i'm sure they would have been
willing!
"Eunometic" wrote in message
om...
(B2431) wrote in message
...
From: "Keith Willshaw"
Date: 2/19/2004 10:21 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Nuff said.



Or bombed it

Keith


Or laughed at it after the war. They really should have mass produced
the
piloted version of the V-1. Just think, we could have killed more pilots
that
way, the Nazis would have wasted money and material and, most
imporantly, put
them in the air flying a straight line and making an easy target.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired


The Reichenberg was a effectively a near suicide weapon but the
Germans did take care that it wasn't a forgone conclusion. Unlike the
Japanese Baka in which the pilot was sealed in his cockpit it did have
an escape system: parachute, terminal autopilot and a two seat two
cockit versions were made to train pilots presumably with a simulated
escape.

The As 014 pulse jet was continiously tweeked to improve its speed.
With a slightly lightend warload (like the latter buzz bombs) and the
tweeked engines which had shown themselves to work at 495mph I expect
a speed of 495mph would have been possible or at least necessary for
the Reichberg to work. Enough to evade interception. Dodging radar
directed guns with proximity fuses might have been more difficult but
even there the weapon would have been capable of some degree of
weaving. Still such a weapon if it can be made survivable enough for
say a 33% or more hit rate and the targets are chosen carefully IT is
a mathematically sensible use of resources if it destroys and kills
more than it costs. Me 109s in the last stages of the war had an
attrition rate of 30%. It takes balls to get in the air in that
situation and in some ways their missions would have been almost more
pointless than a suicide mission.

If it ever got down to the wire do you think the allies would be
capable of producing the men for this kind of mission? Sure WWII
aircrew had around the 50% chance of completing a tour of duty (about
the same as Ed Rasimus had flying thuds over Vietnam). but to face
odds like that or like 95% on a single mission? Today I don't you
could find such people.

In article ,
(B2431) wrote:

They really should have mass produced the
piloted version of the V-1.

Large amounts of industrial migraines for the pilots.

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

From: Chad Irby
Date: 2/19/2004 10:23 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article ,
(B2431) wrote:

They really should have mass produced the
piloted version of the V-1.

Large amounts of industrial migraines for the pilots.

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

The hard part would be recuiting once they saw the same percentage of them
dropping off the end of the ramp as with the V-1. The rest would probably go
boom long before hitting any target, you know kinda like"skeet." Sounds like a
perfectly good plan from the Allied point of view.

Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired

"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message ...
"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Nuff said.



Or bombed it

Keith

And Germany laid waste to Europe and Russia not to mention costing
Britain, France, and Belgium their colonies postwar. So glad Germany
cost Britain its superpower status and robbed them of developing the
A-bomb first (Tube Alloys).


Rob