Employment

"Ol Shy & Bashful" wrote in news:bd11f57e-8cae-
:

On Jun 7, 11:03*am, wrote:
On Jun 6, 9:29 pm, "Ol Shy & Bashful" wrote:



We're starting brand new CFI's at $32K which is about double what
most
regionals are paying for a new right seat pilot.

It terms of dollars, I suppose so, but in terms of experience, it
would seem to me that they're a lot better off in the right seat of
something with two turbines.

How would an ambitions kid (and that is definitely not me on either
count) ever make those part 135 minima if all he does is go around
and
around the pattern in day VFR conditions, with a very few XC and
night
hours added into the mix?

Then please tell me how in hell any new pilot is going to gain flight
experience if he/she isn't flying? And who says they won't get XC and/
or night? I'm not going to put my airplanes on the line, pay for the
upkeep, pay for the gas, pay for the insurance, etc, etc and just let
them go build time on my dollar. As a new CFI they are going to build
some invaluable flight experience that you just can't get any other
way and make a liveable wage while doing it. They produce for us, we
help them along. In more than 50 years in this business I've never
seen a better deal for new pilots. I suppose it boils down to personal
motivation and desire. Unfortunately the trend seems to be more and
more..."What can you do for ME?" and expect it to be a freebie.


I have to say, your wages seem impressive. In my day we would have
gotten marginally above min wage and liked it...



Bertie

on 6/7/2008 12:32 PM Bertie the Bunyip said the following:
"Ol Shy & Bashful" wrote in news:bd11f57e-8cae-
:

On Jun 7, 11:03 am, wrote:
On Jun 6, 9:29 pm, "Ol Shy & Bashful" wrote:



We're starting brand new CFI's at $32K which is about double what
most
regionals are paying for a new right seat pilot.
It terms of dollars, I suppose so, but in terms of experience, it
would seem to me that they're a lot better off in the right seat of
something with two turbines.

How would an ambitions kid (and that is definitely not me on either
count) ever make those part 135 minima if all he does is go around
and
around the pattern in day VFR conditions, with a very few XC and
night
hours added into the mix?
Then please tell me how in hell any new pilot is going to gain flight
experience if he/she isn't flying? And who says they won't get XC and/
or night? I'm not going to put my airplanes on the line, pay for the
upkeep, pay for the gas, pay for the insurance, etc, etc and just let
them go build time on my dollar. As a new CFI they are going to build
some invaluable flight experience that you just can't get any other
way and make a liveable wage while doing it. They produce for us, we
help them along. In more than 50 years in this business I've never
seen a better deal for new pilots. I suppose it boils down to personal
motivation and desire. Unfortunately the trend seems to be more and
more..."What can you do for ME?" and expect it to be a freebie.


I have to say, your wages seem impressive. In my day we would have
gotten marginally above min wage and liked it...

And in your CFI days minimum wage was, what, tuppence? :-)

Rich Ahrens wrote in news:484acc44$0$68530
:

on 6/7/2008 12:32 PM Bertie the Bunyip said the following:
"Ol Shy & Bashful" wrote in news:bd11f57e-8cae-
:

On Jun 7, 11:03 am, wrote:
On Jun 6, 9:29 pm, "Ol Shy & Bashful" wrote:



We're starting brand new CFI's at $32K which is about double what
most
regionals are paying for a new right seat pilot.
It terms of dollars, I suppose so, but in terms of experience, it
would seem to me that they're a lot better off in the right seat of
something with two turbines.

How would an ambitions kid (and that is definitely not me on either
count) ever make those part 135 minima if all he does is go around
and
around the pattern in day VFR conditions, with a very few XC and
night
hours added into the mix?
Then please tell me how in hell any new pilot is going to gain
flight
experience if he/she isn't flying? And who says they won't get XC
and/
or night? I'm not going to put my airplanes on the line, pay for the
upkeep, pay for the gas, pay for the insurance, etc, etc and just
let
them go build time on my dollar. As a new CFI they are going to
build
some invaluable flight experience that you just can't get any other
way and make a liveable wage while doing it. They produce for us, we
help them along. In more than 50 years in this business I've never
seen a better deal for new pilots. I suppose it boils down to
personal
motivation and desire. Unfortunately the trend seems to be more and
more..."What can you do for ME?" and expect it to be a freebie.


I have to say, your wages seem impressive. In my day we would have
gotten marginally above min wage and liked it...

And in your CFI days minimum wage was, what, tuppence? :-)


I think may wages were a button and all the stale Three Musketeers bars
I could steal from the airport candy machine.



Bertie

wrote in message ...


I've been hearing there is a pilot shortage, folks being picked up right out of college flight school into the right
seat on the regionals. Does your CFI pay compare with right seat time?

That seems unlikely. I see that web sites allegedly having pilot job
listings are free for employers to post jobs but fee-based for job
seekers. It would be the other way around if there really was a pilot
shortage.

I personally know quite a few folks right out of WMU flight school who are now regional drivers...no CFI in between and
just over 250 hours...

"Blueskies" wrote in
:


wrote in message
.
..


I've been hearing there is a pilot shortage, folks being picked up
right out of college flight school into the right seat on the
regionals. Does your CFI pay compare with right seat time?

That seems unlikely. I see that web sites allegedly having pilot job
listings are free for employers to post jobs but fee-based for job
seekers. It would be the other way around if there really was a pilot
shortage.

I personally know quite a few folks right out of WMU flight school who
are now regional drivers...no CFI in between and just over 250
hours...



Shudder!

I've flown with a few of those on jets. They tend to be very polished but
there's only a veneer of capability there. They can fly OK and will
certainly get the airplane on the ground in one piece if the skipper has a
coronary, but it's not the ideal scenario up in the front. Simply put,
they're fine day to day but when the **** hits the fan they can be a
liability.


Bertie

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message ...
I personally know quite a few folks right out of WMU flight school who
are now regional drivers...no CFI in between and just over 250
hours...



Shudder!

I've flown with a few of those on jets. They tend to be very polished but
there's only a veneer of capability there. They can fly OK and will
certainly get the airplane on the ground in one piece if the skipper has a
coronary, but it's not the ideal scenario up in the front. Simply put,
they're fine day to day but when the **** hits the fan they can be a
liability.


Bertie

yes scary, but they polished with the glass and have procedures down pretty well, only need the 'grit' that can only
come from experience; experience that is rarely gained for being a CFI...

"Blueskies" wrote in
:


"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
...
I personally know quite a few folks right out of WMU flight school
who are now regional drivers...no CFI in between and just over 250
hours...



Shudder!

I've flown with a few of those on jets. They tend to be very polished
but there's only a veneer of capability there. They can fly OK and
will certainly get the airplane on the ground in one piece if the
skipper has a coronary, but it's not the ideal scenario up in the
front. Simply put, they're fine day to day but when the **** hits the
fan they can be a liability.


Bertie

yes scary, but they polished with the glass and have procedures down
pretty well, only need the 'grit' that can only come from experience;
experience that is rarely gained for being a CFI...


Yeah, it's all a bit upside down, but I disagree that they don't get
experience from instructing. I do think that the gus who instruct shoul
dbe the experienced ones, though! The experienced guys can't be bothered
to do it, of course, so we're kinda stuck with the way things are, I
guess.
On a brighter note, I'm studying up for my CFI renewal next week and
I've been going through the latest FAA material. Years ago, it was very
thin material and a lot of it was just crap. The stuff they put out now
is excellent. Very thorough. Very practical stuff too. Who'da thunk a
gov'mint agency capable of such a thing?



Bertie

Ol Shy & Bashful wrote:
On Jun 6, 4:22 pm, "Blueskies" wrote:

We're starting brand new CFI's at $32K which is about double what most
regionals are paying for a new right seat pilot.

That's pretty good; a hell of a lot better than what they're paying here
in Oregon. If we weren't across the country from each other, I'd be
hitting you up for an interview.

-c

On Jun 7, 12:29*am, "Ol Shy & Bashful" wrote:
We're starting brand new CFI's at $32K which is about double what most
regionals are paying for a new right seat pilot.

There's an outfit in Arizona that starts them at $36K/yr, I think. In
any case - it's a living wage. Only problem is, there's no future in
it. Are you asking for a comitment? Like maybe a year or two?
Because if you are, the economics of the situation are against you.
These days most of the regionals are hiring people at under 800 hours
- which means that you can get your CFI time in and be hired in 6
months or less. True, you will make $10K less in that 6 months - but
what is 6 months seniority worth?

Michael