Officers..The Bridge at Remagen

Plus what on earth did the Brits do to Hong Kong except turn it
into the prosperous place of commerce and business it is now?

I suspect the poster was referring to its loss to the Japanese about
Christmas 1941.

Deep down, however, I suspect he was actually thinking of the loss of
Singapore in February 1942. Unlike the situation in indefensible Hong
Kong, the early surrender of Singapore was a rather shameful moment in
British arms.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (requires authentication)

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

When the troops of the 9th armored division reached the bridge at Remaagen on
March 7th they stopped undecided what to do. General William Hoge saw the
bridge standing aand ordered it to be taken with the East end of the bridge
secured. Lt. Karl Timmermann led the charge takig the bridge and setting up a
perimeter line of skernishers on the Eastern side.

When ordered to take the bridge troops obeyed the commands of their officers
instantly and obediently. No debates. No second opinions. Just immediate
action. It is how wars are won.

But I will have to chime in on this, with some agreements and disagreements.

Warfare has evolved past the stage, at least with Western countries, where it
was all about just generating maximum numbers of planes, people, etc to a
target and that meant the difference. In much of the history of warfare,
whether it was the Roman conquest of Europe, or B-26s over a bridge, it was
about putting maximum numbers of your side on or over a target for the best
chance of success. The tactics were not usually too specialized typically, nor
were the weapons. One person who questioned or disagreed could mean one less
warrior, or one less plane over the target whose bombs could have made the
difference.

However, warfare today is less numbers oriented, and more about having the
right plan and the right tactics when you go in, because often now we do
undertake operations in which our force, while being at a numerical
disadvantage, will have a huge techological advantage over the enemy, and the
right plans and tactics are going to make maximum use of that.

One B-52, equipped with JDAMs, utilizing highly training soldiers for targeting
and directing, and with the right tactics, can achieve things undreamed not
long ago.

And a special forces team, be it SFOD-D, SEAL, PJs, etc, doesnt just get a
command from the team leader and the rest just go do it without any thinking.
They are going to work out the plan beforehand, and probably each contributing
or adding to it. When fighter and bomber aircraft are doing CAS work, or
interdiction, the technology is best utilized when you properly employ the
weapons, instead of just generating large numerical sorties and hoping for the
best.
Special forces might have been a novelty during WW2, but now they and their
tactics are an integral part of modern warfighting.

But ironically, it is 3rd world armies that still rely on "just do as your
told", "no questions asked", and still fight with massed numbers, not much
technology, and do not coordinate or train solders much, lest they become a
domestic threat, especially Arab and Middle Eastern Armies. Against an
educated well trained army, who uses proper planning and tactics, those 3rd
world armies come up quite short.









Ron
Tanker 65, C-54E (DC-4)

On 26 Feb 2004 19:26:25 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote:

When the troops of the 9th armored division reached the bridge at Remaagen on
March 7th they stopped undecided what to do. General William Hoge saw the
bridge standing aand ordered it to be taken with the East end of the bridge
secured. Lt. Karl Timmermann led the charge takig the bridge and setting up a
perimeter line of skernishers on the Eastern side.

When ordered to take the bridge troops obeyed the commands of their officers
instantly and obediently. No debates. No second opinions. Just immediate
action. It is how wars are won.

Actually, according to William Breuer's "Storming Hitler's Rhine",
Timmerman's men hesitated, when Major Deveers tried to cheer them up,
he was cursed back about what he could have done with his damned
bridge. It took some prodding until men finally rose and followed
their lieutnant over the bridge.


Drax

Subject: Officers..The Bridge at Remagen
From: (Drazen Kramaric)
Date: 3/31/04 11:12 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

On 26 Feb 2004 19:26:25 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote:

When the troops of the 9th armored division reached the bridge at Remaagen
on
March 7th they stopped undecided what to do. General William Hoge saw the
bridge standing aand ordered it to be taken with the East end of the bridge
secured. Lt. Karl Timmermann led the charge takig the bridge and setting up
a
perimeter line of skernishers on the Eastern side.

When ordered to take the bridge troops obeyed the commands of their officers
instantly and obediently. No debates. No second opinions. Just immediate
action. It is how wars are won.

Actually, according to William Breuer's "Storming Hitler's Rhine",
Timmerman's men hesitated, when Major Deveers tried to cheer them up,
he was cursed back about what he could have done with his damned
bridge. It took some prodding until men finally rose and followed
their lieutnant over the bridge.


Drax


I know men who were there and they tell the story as I have told it. Also there
were cameramen there who recorded the assault as I have told it. Brauer wasn't
there and knows nothing about it.



Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: Officers..The Bridge at Remagen
From: (Drazen Kramaric)
Date: 3/31/04 11:12 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

On 26 Feb 2004 19:26:25 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote:

When the troops of the 9th armored division reached the bridge at
Remaagen
on
March 7th they stopped undecided what to do. General William Hoge saw
the
bridge standing aand ordered it to be taken with the East end of the
bridge
secured. Lt. Karl Timmermann led the charge takig the bridge and setting
up
a
perimeter line of skernishers on the Eastern side.

When ordered to take the bridge troops obeyed the commands of their
officers
instantly and obediently. No debates. No second opinions. Just immediate
action. It is how wars are won.

Actually, according to William Breuer's "Storming Hitler's Rhine",
Timmerman's men hesitated, when Major Deveers tried to cheer them up,
he was cursed back about what he could have done with his damned
bridge. It took some prodding until men finally rose and followed
their lieutnant over the bridge.


Drax


I know men who were there and they tell the story as I have told it. Also
there
were cameramen there who recorded the assault as I have told it. Brauer
wasn't
there and knows nothing about it.

Once again Art comes up short when his story is examined against available
hisorical accounts:

"Timmermann saw that the bridge was damaged (see the picture at right) but
passable. He called the platoon leaders together and gave the plan for
crossing the bridge. The men hesitated - they were tired and it looked like
certain death." www2.gasou.edu/facstaff/etmcmull/REMAGEN.htm (Account from
a US Army officer who participated in the Remagen operation, with the first
AAA battalion to arive to defend the bridghead)

Sounds like the account Breuer related is a lot closer to the truth than the
one Art recalss--but heck, given that Art can't even remember the fact that
National Guard units were in the thick of the combat throughout the ETO,
this comes as little surprise.

Brooks







Arthur Kramer