AFA Cadet XC Team - MIA at Montegue?

snip File a complaint with the Rule Committee. /snip

Did that already.

Not a complaint as much as a request that if the AFA is going to take
slots at an over-subscribed contest, that they agree to abide by
contest rules.

On Jul 6, 10:54*am, Tuno wrote:
snip File a complaint with the Rule Committee. /snip

Did that already.

Not a complaint as much as a request that if the AFA is going to take
slots at an over-subscribed contest, that they agree to abide by
contest rules.

I'm usually a lurker on this group, but I have to respond to this
thread. You guys are missing the whole point of the AFA soaring
program. It's to give some (lucky) cadets a headstart on their flying
careers, and begin to teach them the basics of flight. The program is
conducted in a specific way for several reasons. Most cadets are very
low-time pilots, so conservatism is in order. In addition, they are
flying taxpayer-financed gliders, and they have to be good custodians
of that public property. Finally, they are training to be military
pilots, which means they must fly with discipline and according to
their regulations. They must obey orders, because they are training
to be combat pilots, and that is what is necessary for them to be
effective in that environment. It's unfortunate that, for whatever
reason, they didn't comply with some contest rule on occasion, but the
fact is that they must comply with their own rules. Accusations of
CYA or lack of understanding of the sport are simply nonsense.

Dave, the points you make about the AFA soaring program are well known
and no one disputes them, but those of us who were at Parowan heard
their commander explicitly state that their program was first and
foremost about leadership training.

Now, that's fine, I have no problem with that. But the Region 9
contest is a *soaring* contest; if they want to do leadership training
at Parowan they can set up an obstacle course in the groundhog paddock
and have at it, and not take contest slots away from pilots who have a
greater interest in taking it seriously.

Even better, they should organize and host a sanctioned contest
themselves, in Colorado (as they did once upon a time) or Hobbs, where
they don't have a problem with over-subscribed contests. That would be
an excellent demonstration of leadership skills.

~ted/2NO

So it's good leadership to join a contest, agree to abide by the rules
of the contest and then flout them? Is honoring agreements not part
of the military code?

What ****ed off the contest officials was not having to abide by their
special rules and accommodate some of their conservative flying
requirements , which we were happy to do, but their skipping the
contest and disappearing without apparently even telling anyone. In
my book, that's just plain rude. I certainly wouldn't bend over
backwards to accommodate rude guests and I don't expect SSA to either.

Mike

On Jul 6, 3:44*pm, Mike the Strike wrote:
So it's good leadership to join a contest, agree to abide by the rules
of the contest and then flout them? * Is honoring agreements not part
of the military code?

What ****ed off the contest officials was not having to abide by their
special rules and accommodate some of their conservative flying
requirements , which we were happy to do, but their skipping the
contest and disappearing without apparently even telling anyone. *In
my book, that's just plain rude. *I certainly wouldn't bend over
backwards to accommodate rude guests and I don't expect SSA to either.

Mike

Valid points. And I understand better the AFA's objectives. I also
noted the "apparently" regarding whether they told anyone they were
leaving and why. So is there a dialogue with the AFA (with the
contest, SSA, the Rules Committee, etc.) to address this year's
problem and help determine how to handle the next request for AFA
slots at Parowan or anywhere else? If past rude behavior were a
criterion for contest entry, I know a few names, other than the AFA's,
who would be excluded in the future.

Chip Bearden
ASW 24 "JB"
USA

The AFA did not show up at Montague because they b0rke a vehicle on
the way there from Parowan, I'm told.

Should also note that while PR9 may have been over-subscribed a month
or two prior to the contest, that was not the case when it started;
the last person on the waiting list got in. So the AFA, in this case,
didn't "waste" any contest slots.

The CD and the SSA rules committee have a good dialogue with the AFA
that continues. Hopefully Charlie will chime in here with what he
knows, which is a lot more than me.

2NO

Fellow soaring pilots,

Thanks to all for responding to my original post, I was very sorry to
hear of the AFA Soaring teams vehicle accident in route to R-11, but
we are all very relieved to hear no one was injured. It certainly
reminds us all of the very real dangers we face just hauling our ships
around the country, so let’s all be super vigilant in our travels.

I believe this series of RAS dialog in response to my original posting
was a healthy and educational one. I personally don’t believe the AFA
Commanders stated “Leadership Training Program” would need or should
be in conflict with the daily rigors of contest flying. Actually quite
the opposite, all the healthy and admirable qualities found in strong
leaders can be experienced, tested and instilled during the sometimes
marathon contest process.

I have attended four regional contests where the AFA Cadets were
scheduled to be in attendance, I belong to a soaring club In Colorado
that has a fairly close relationship with the AFA and its Cadets but
unfortunately not its XC Soaring Program. So I have some personal
experience with observing the Cadets contest program over the recent
years, more than the average pilot but I wouldn’t call it an insider’s
view.

It is my respectful hope that:
(1) The AFA Cadets will continue to participate and enjoy racing in
the Region 9 contests and benefit from this unique experience for many
years to come.
(2) The XC Soaring programs commander will perhaps consider the
structured and yet creative process of attending and operating within
the parameters of a civilian soaring contest can mesh quite well with
a Leadership Training Program.

Respectfully submitted,
Rick Culbertson
Colorado, USA

Fellow soaring pilots,

Thanks to all for responding to my original post, I'm very sorry to
hear of the AFA Soaring teams vehicle accident in route to R-11, but
we are all very relieved to hear no one was injured. It certainly
reminds us all of the very real dangers we face just hauling our ships
around the country, so let’s all be super vigilant in our travels.

I believe this series of RAS dialog in response to my original posting
was a healthy and educational one. I personally don’t believe the AFA
Commanders stated “Leadership Training Program” would need or should
be in conflict with the daily rigors of contest flying. Actually quite
the opposite, all the healthy and admirable qualities found in strong
leaders can be experienced, tested and instilled during the sometimes
marathon like contest process.

I have attended four regional contests where the AFA Cadets were
scheduled to be in attendance, I belong to a soaring club In Colorado
that has a fairly close relationship with the AFA and its Cadets but
unfortunately not its XC Soaring Program. So I have some personal
experience with observing the Cadets contest program over the recent
years, more than the average pilot but I wouldn’t call it an insider’s
view.

It is my respectful hope that:
(1) The AFA Cadets will continue to enjoy racing in the Region 9
contests and benefit from this unique experience for many years to
come.
(2) The AFA XC Soaring programs commander will perhaps consider the
structured and yet creative process of attending and operating within
the parameters of a civilian soaring contest can and should mesh quite
well with a Leadership Training Program.

Respectfully submitted,
Rick Culbertson
Colorado, USA

We're all on the same wavelength.

I've seen the Air Force cadets at a bunch of Regionals and it's
inspiring to see a bunch of such young enthusiasts participate -
sometimes with their folks following along too. They have never
hesitated to help other pilots - I remember one bunch pulling a glider
out of a mud pit in a "dry" lake bed at Hobbs one year and at Parowan
this year they rushed to help Nick get his Twin Astir out of the ditch
and back onto the field.

No, it's not the cadets, or even their officers that are the problem,
but some of the strange rules they operate under - probably dreamed up
by some office-bound bureaucrat. Our mutterings here are aimed at
them, not the pilots.

Mike