Master cylinders

On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 09:26:56 -0400, Ernest Christley
wrote:

Stealth Pilot wrote:

I've never heard of a fire in a light aircraft's brakes so I'll

http://lancair.net/lists/flyrotary/Message/28204.html
Now you have 8*)
For the full story go to http://lancair.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html and enter "brake fire" in the search box.

http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...ead.php?t=4737
And so has Cirrus.

continue using armour braided flexible lines, standard aircraft grade
o-rings and red aviation brake fluid.

My gear retracts, so I pretty much had to use flex lines, but I've concluded that one-off, hand-formed hard lines all
the way out to the brakes is a serious problem waiting to happen. The hand-forming work hardens the aluminum, making it
prone to eventually cracking.



You NEED to anneal aluminum lines after bending.

you realise of course dont you that there are brake fluids designed
for other types of aircraft that you wouldnt want within miles of a
light aircraft. some are quite toxic.
just because it was made for the stealth fighter doesnt mean it is
even remotely suitable for use in cleveland 5.00x5 systems.

It was designed as a drop in replacement. The correct number is MIL-H 83282. This thread contains a little more
information: http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...ead.php?t=4737 Includes information about o-ring compatibility.

If I had a gallon of 5606 sitting on the shelf, I probably wouldn't switch; but if I was looking to buy a gallon, I
would be remiss not to look at the 83282


btw he hasnt replied. do you think I offerred too much for the stuffed
units he has? :-) :-) :-)
Stealth Pilot



Your price was so high that he probably didn't think you were serious. 8*)

** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 11:40:17 -0700, wrote:

On Mon, 14 Jul 2008, Ernest Christley wrote:

Excellent post, Stealth, except avoid the red aviation fluid. Well, some of
the red aviation fluid. The stuff is fairly flammable.

What about using plain old DOT3 automotive brake fluid? It's cheap,
available everywhere, and non-flammable.


NOT nan flammable, by a LONG shot - and not compatible with aircraft
"O" rings.
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 11:40:17 -0700, wrote:

On Mon, 14 Jul 2008, Ernest Christley wrote:

Excellent post, Stealth, except avoid the red aviation fluid. Well, some of
the red aviation fluid. The stuff is fairly flammable.

What about using plain old DOT3 automotive brake fluid? It's cheap,
available everywhere, and non-flammable.

absolutely not.
it is the wrong chemistry for the o-rings.
and being hydroscopic it entrains moisture which leads to corrosion on
the internal polished surfaces of the master cylinder.

the correct red aviation brake fluid is cheaper as well.

I have personally pulled apart master cylinders that have had 40 years
in service and internally are still absolutely polished and pristine.
they used red aviation brake fluid. new o-rings bought them back to
life.

this is one area where aviation standard technology has really got it
right.

the stuff I'm using is Royco 756 petroleum base hydraulic fluid. it is
milspec mil-h-5606.
pretty inexpensive stuff too.
Stealth Pilot

On Tue, 15 Jul 2008, clare@snyder wrote:

On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 11:40:17 -0700, wrote:
What about using plain old DOT3 automotive brake fluid?

NOT nan flammable, by a LONG shot

It's always been my understanding that it's non-flammable, so I looked up
several MSDS's for DOT 3 brake fluid of verious brands. Some say, "Not
classified by OSHA as combustible"; and some say, "OSHA/NFPA Class IIIB
combustible liquid", which near as I can determine, means the vapors can
be made to burn, but apparently it's much less flammable than anything
petroleum-based. Looks to me like a better bet, flammability-wise, than
something I know WILL burn very well, given the chance.

and not compatible with aircraft "O" rings.

Now that could be a problem. A little research with Google indicates some
aircraft brakes are fine with it, and some aren't. So I'll have to check
into that, and change seals if necessary, before making the switch.

In article ,
Stealth Pilot wrote:

On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 11:40:17 -0700, wrote:

On Mon, 14 Jul 2008, Ernest Christley wrote:

Excellent post, Stealth, except avoid the red aviation fluid. Well, some
of
the red aviation fluid. The stuff is fairly flammable.

What about using plain old DOT3 automotive brake fluid? It's cheap,
available everywhere, and non-flammable.

absolutely not.
it is the wrong chemistry for the o-rings.
and being hydroscopic

Hygroscopic (literally "water seeking") is something that readily
absorbs water (usually from the atmosphere). Like some salts, or some
types of brake fluid.

Hydroscopic refers to an instrument used for making observations of
underwater objects.

Don't blame me, blame the Greeks, they had a word for everything.

Now we resume our regular programming...

/pedant


it entrains moisture which leads to corrosion on
the internal polished surfaces of the master cylinder.

the correct red aviation brake fluid is cheaper as well.

I have personally pulled apart master cylinders that have had 40 years
in service and internally are still absolutely polished and pristine.
they used red aviation brake fluid. new o-rings bought them back to
life.

this is one area where aviation standard technology has really got it
right.

the stuff I'm using is Royco 756 petroleum base hydraulic fluid. it is
milspec mil-h-5606.
pretty inexpensive stuff too.
Stealth Pilot

On Wed, 16 Jul 2008, Stealth Pilot wrote:

On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 11:40:17 -0700, wrote:
What about using plain old DOT3 automotive brake fluid?

and being hydroscopic it entrains moisture which leads to corrosion on
the internal polished surfaces of the master cylinder.

That's easily handled by replacing the brake fluid every year or so.
Brake systems on cars routinely work for many years without any
maintenance at all. If the fluid is changed even every few years,
corrosion is a non-issue.

the correct red aviation brake fluid is cheaper as well.

LOL, in Oz maybe, but not here in the US. The last DOT 3 brake fluid I
bought was $0.99 per 12oz bottle.

the stuff I'm using is Royco 756 petroleum base hydraulic fluid. it is
milspec mil-h-5606.

hmm, flash point 105C / 221F, and burns about as good as diesel fuel. If
I were starting with a clean slate and looking for a fluid to fill a
hydraulic brake system, that would be second to last on the list, right
above gasoline. Of course most of us will never have a brake line fail
and spray fluid on a hot disk & caliper, but I'm more than willing to
change the seals in my brake system and change the fluid every year if
that's what it takes to drastically reduce the fire danger in case it does
happen.

On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 10:30:02 -0700, wrote:

On Tue, 15 Jul 2008, clare@snyder wrote:

On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 11:40:17 -0700, wrote:
What about using plain old DOT3 automotive brake fluid?

NOT nan flammable, by a LONG shot

It's always been my understanding that it's non-flammable, so I looked up
several MSDS's for DOT 3 brake fluid of verious brands. Some say, "Not
classified by OSHA as combustible"; and some say, "OSHA/NFPA Class IIIB
combustible liquid", which near as I can determine, means the vapors can
be made to burn, but apparently it's much less flammable than anything
petroleum-based. Looks to me like a better bet, flammability-wise, than
something I know WILL burn very well, given the chance.

and not compatible with aircraft "O" rings.

Now that could be a problem. A little research with Google indicates some
aircraft brakes are fine with it, and some aren't. So I'll have to check
into that, and change seals if necessary, before making the switch.


Have you ever had to heat up a brake line fitting to get it out of a
cyl on a car? When that stuff gets hot, it burns (and blows all over
the place too)
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 10:33:58 -0700, Steve Hix
wrote:

In article ,
Stealth Pilot wrote:

On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 11:40:17 -0700, wrote:

On Mon, 14 Jul 2008, Ernest Christley wrote:

Excellent post, Stealth, except avoid the red aviation fluid. Well, some
of
the red aviation fluid. The stuff is fairly flammable.

What about using plain old DOT3 automotive brake fluid? It's cheap,
available everywhere, and non-flammable.

absolutely not.
it is the wrong chemistry for the o-rings.
and being hydroscopic

Hygroscopic (literally "water seeking") is something that readily
absorbs water (usually from the atmosphere). Like some salts, or some
types of brake fluid.

Hydroscopic refers to an instrument used for making observations of
underwater objects.

Don't blame me, blame the Greeks, they had a word for everything.

Now we resume our regular programming...

/pedant


pedantic - the antics of a pedant??

yes muffed it but we understand each other.
Stealth Pilot

On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 11:09:39 -0700, wrote:

On Wed, 16 Jul 2008, Stealth Pilot wrote:

On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 11:40:17 -0700, wrote:
What about using plain old DOT3 automotive brake fluid?

and being hydroscopic it entrains moisture which leads to corrosion on
the internal polished surfaces of the master cylinder.

That's easily handled by replacing the brake fluid every year or so.
Brake systems on cars routinely work for many years without any
maintenance at all. If the fluid is changed even every few years,
corrosion is a non-issue.

the correct red aviation brake fluid is cheaper as well.

LOL, in Oz maybe, but not here in the US. The last DOT 3 brake fluid I
bought was $0.99 per 12oz bottle.

the stuff I'm using is Royco 756 petroleum base hydraulic fluid. it is
milspec mil-h-5606.

hmm, flash point 105C / 221F, and burns about as good as diesel fuel. If
I were starting with a clean slate and looking for a fluid to fill a
hydraulic brake system, that would be second to last on the list, right
above gasoline. Of course most of us will never have a brake line fail
and spray fluid on a hot disk & caliper, but I'm more than willing to
change the seals in my brake system and change the fluid every year if
that's what it takes to drastically reduce the fire danger in case it does
happen.

so go to it! this is experimental.

but what of the corrosion to the polished face of the cylinder the
o-ring mates to?
I'll have non corrosive over cheap any day.

btw we all use flexible brake lines in oz. I cant recall ever seeing
one in metal tube.

Stealth Pilot

In article ,
Stealth Pilot wrote:

On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 10:33:58 -0700, Steve Hix
wrote:

In article ,
Stealth Pilot wrote:

On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 11:40:17 -0700, wrote:

On Mon, 14 Jul 2008, Ernest Christley wrote:

Excellent post, Stealth, except avoid the red aviation fluid. Well,
some
of
the red aviation fluid. The stuff is fairly flammable.

What about using plain old DOT3 automotive brake fluid? It's cheap,
available everywhere, and non-flammable.

absolutely not.
it is the wrong chemistry for the o-rings.
and being hydroscopic

Hygroscopic (literally "water seeking") is something that readily
absorbs water (usually from the atmosphere). Like some salts, or some
types of brake fluid.

Hydroscopic refers to an instrument used for making observations of
underwater objects.

Don't blame me, blame the Greeks, they had a word for everything.

Now we resume our regular programming...

/pedant


pedantic - the antics of a pedant??

yes muffed it but we understand each other.
Stealth Pilot

I has been a techinical writer for about 30 years. Sometimes I can't
he'p myself.