Fake military guys & the Stolen Valor Act of 2005

"Vaughn Simon" wrote:

"William Black" wrote in message

Surely something like that would be exploded in seconds, it's not as if there
are that many of them. Certainly, in the UK, a VC winner would be someone
of note in the local community and someone claiming to be one who nobody knew
about would be liable to be checked out reasonably quickly.

In the age if the Internet it is very easy for one to make the claim, and
even easier for the world to discover that the claim is false.

Only if the record in question is online. My awards (far short of a
VC) aren't. Neither is my service except where I myself have made it
available.

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/

-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL

On 2008-08-22 07:14:06 -0700, "Vaughn Simon"
said:

In the age if the Internet it is very easy for one to make the claim, and
even easier for the world to discover that the claim is false.

Things are heading that way, yes, but it's still the case that truly
canonical registers are only available online for the very highest
military awards. The convenient analogy is with academic records,
which are so often faked as well. It might take a little legwork to
prove if someone really holds a Navy Cross or a PhD, but it's not that
hard. Trying to authenticate a Bronze Star or masters degree though,
you'll have to dig a bit, and a BA/BS or whatever one would call an
analogous military merit award...forget it.

(Perversely, the listing for my bachelors thesis can be found online
but my masters thesis is nowhere to be found.)

What advantage accrues to someone in the USA if they pretend to have had a
distinguished military career?

That really depends on one's individual situation, but usually there is very
little actual advantage connected to it. Perhaps you would be a big
man at your
local VFW club, but that doesn't put food on the table.

Actually, if you look at just the records of politicians who have
gotten nailed for fake medals or claiming advanced degrees they never
earned, it's pretty clear that they did benefit from the con.

"William Black" wrote:

s a Brit I have some real problems with all this.

Why does anyone care?

If you 'plug in' to the ex-service system you'll certainly come into contact
with people who will know, and there's no advantage in pretending you're
something you are not.

When it comes to Vietnam vets, there are certain advantages to
maintaining the fiction that most of them were jungle rotted victims
of PTSD sprayed with Agent Orange on daily basis and twice on Sundays.

What advantage accrues to someone in the USA if they pretend to have had a
distinguished military career?

In the current enviroment of near worship for the service member and
the veteran one accrues at least of modicum of social respect and
status by being a service member or veteran.

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/

-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL

In message , William Black
writes
If you 'plug in' to the ex-service system you'll certainly come into contact
with people who will know, and there's no advantage in pretending you're
something you are not.

Exposing "walts" is one of the approved sports on the Army Rumour
Service, for example. It's just not wise to pretend to be what you're
not. Someone _will_ ask "so which office were you in, when you were with
MND(SE)?" and claiming "it was so classified I can't tell you" doesn't
work. The floorplan was known to all present, including who was allowed
into which corridors with what clearances.

(FWIW I was in Room G029 But that was in 2005 and they've doubtless
reorganised since then)

Back in this thread someone mentioned that someone pretended to be a MoH
winner.

Surely something like that would be exploded in seconds, it's not as if
there are that many of them. Certainly, in the UK, a VC winner would be
someone of note in the local community and someone claiming to be one who
nobody knew about would be liable to be checked out reasonably quickly.

What advantage accrues to someone in the USA if they pretend to have had a
distinguished military career?

Be fair, the US are a lot nicer to their servicemen than the UK is in
general and some silly sods may decide that being a "decorated hero" may
mean even _more_ benefits, trust and gifts than simply "having served".

I once got bought dinner by one Paul Lemmen, who claimed to have been a
PIRA brigade commander before he defected and started a new life in the
US, and in 2004 was given to wandering around Washington DC in US Army
uniform with brigadier-generals' rank tabs and licence plates before
heading out to Iraq to continue the feat. Last I heard of him he'd been
arrested and was in custody on assorted fraud and embezzlement charges.
He seemed to be able to make a nice living out of sheer brass neck and
claiming to be One of Our Boys, for a while at least. (He cost me
nothing: others who trusted him more, did rather worse)

I've only got one medal and it's only for "showing up, sticking around
and not screwing up _too_ much". Campaign medals cover a multitude of
sins.

--
The nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its
warriors, will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done
by fools.
-Thucydides


pauldotjdotadam[at]googlemail{dot}.com

Paul J. Adam wrote:


I've only got one medal and it's only for "showing up, sticking around
and not screwing up _too_ much". Campaign medals cover a multitude of sins.


So do I. So many people have seen me as a unimedalist that
I couldn't claim much greatness. Keeps us honest, doesn't it?

Cheers
CJ Adams CD & scar

Tiger wrote:
...

what did you expect? the message that is delivered loud and clear into
the head of every person living in the usa is: "fake? no problem, as
long as it sounds patriotic". its results are visible on all levels,
ranging from "wmd in iraq", through us cities posting "patriotic"
bull**** on their websites (like http://www.solvangca.com/flag/1.htm),
to veterans exaggerating their service records, and to crooks posing as
veterans. the vietnam vet idea is a story in itself. can you imagine an
ss veteran in germany driving around with a car sticker identifying him
as such?

On Sun, 24 Aug 2008 02:12:48 -0700, korben dallas
wrote:

Tiger wrote:
...

what did you expect? the message that is delivered loud and clear into
the head of every person living in the usa is: "fake? no problem, as
long as it sounds patriotic". its results are visible on all levels,
ranging from "wmd in iraq", through us cities posting "patriotic"
bull**** on their websites (like http://www.solvangca.com/flag/1.htm),
to veterans exaggerating their service records, and to crooks posing as
veterans. the vietnam vet idea is a story in itself. can you imagine an
ss veteran in germany driving around with a car sticker identifying him
as such?

After WWII there was a lapel pin for US vets. It was a representation
of an eagle, and it was commonly referred to as the " Ruptured Duck"

Casady

On Sun, 24 Aug 2008 13:14:20 GMT, (Richard
Casady) wrote:

On Sun, 24 Aug 2008 02:12:48 -0700, korben dallas
wrote:

Tiger wrote:
...

what did you expect? the message that is delivered loud and clear into
the head of every person living in the usa is: "fake? no problem, as
long as it sounds patriotic". its results are visible on all levels,
ranging from "wmd in iraq", through us cities posting "patriotic"
bull**** on their websites (like http://www.solvangca.com/flag/1.htm),
to veterans exaggerating their service records, and to crooks posing as
veterans. the vietnam vet idea is a story in itself. can you imagine an
ss veteran in germany driving around with a car sticker identifying him
as such?

After WWII there was a lapel pin for US vets. It was a representation
of an eagle, and it was commonly referred to as the " Ruptured Duck"

This was a very practical "decoration."

When the War ended there was a serious shortage of civilian clothes
for several million demobilized vets. This pin was developed to allow
a vet to wear uniform items without running afoul of Federal laws on
military uniform wear. It was not meant to be a "bumper sticker."

Richard Casady wrote:
On Sun, 24 Aug 2008 02:12:48 -0700, korben dallas
wrote:

Tiger wrote:
...
what did you expect? the message that is delivered loud and clear into
the head of every person living in the usa is: "fake? no problem, as
long as it sounds patriotic". its results are visible on all levels,
ranging from "wmd in iraq", through us cities posting "patriotic"
bull**** on their websites (like http://www.solvangca.com/flag/1.htm),
to veterans exaggerating their service records, and to crooks posing as
veterans. the vietnam vet idea is a story in itself. can you imagine an
ss veteran in germany driving around with a car sticker identifying him
as such?

After WWII there was a lapel pin for US vets. It was a representation
of an eagle, and it was commonly referred to as the " Ruptured Duck"

Casady

That was U.S. Army. The Navy got a metal doughnut button.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

On Aug 24, 4:12*am, korben dallas wrote:
Tiger wrote:

* ...

what did you expect? the message that is delivered loud and clear into
the head of every person living in the usa is: "fake? no problem, as
long as it sounds patriotic". its results are visible on all levels,
ranging from "wmd in iraq", through us cities posting "patriotic"
bull**** on their websites (likehttp://www.solvangca.com/flag/1.htm),
to veterans exaggerating their service records, and to crooks posing as
veterans. the vietnam vet idea is a story in itself. can you imagine an
ss veteran in germany driving around with a car sticker identifying him
as such?

Go to snopes.com enter folding US flag, you'll get a few hits.

What is sad is stories like this 'sound' true, but they're not. There
is a whole lot of them going around about Taps that aren't true. Not
to mention the one about the Marine chaplain and the whole bit about
how everything was due to a veteran. Sounds nice, but not true. But,
its read and copied in all the papers on Veterans day.

I guess people who don't know history need the short stuff. It would
be better to read about Chosin, Peleliu, The Thousand Plane Raid, you
can probably come up with a list depending on what your area of
interest was or when and what you did in the service or what your
branch of service was.