iPhone in a glider?

On Sep 19, 3:59*am, Michael Ash wrote:
Matt Herron Jr. wrote:

Has anyone thought about applications for the iPhone 3G platform in a
glider? *It has an excellent sunlight readable screen with touch
interface that causes no loss of image quality. *It has an
accelerometer built in, a GPS that is probably better than spot,
wireless for speech commands, remote interfaces, etc. fast processor,
lots of ram for large maps and gesture recognition for panning,
zooming, etc. *Web access (where available) for a quick weather update
before launch. *Seems like an opportunity waiting to happen...

I agree, it's a great platform for such an explanation. I've used and
have been programming an iPhone since November. I'm lead programmer
on a product that allows people to write Java programs and compile
them to native code or the iPhone (and also for BREW and Windows
Mobile).


It's something I've given some thought to. I don't have an iPhone and
don't want to pay for the expensive subscription, so I was hoping that the
second version of the iPod Touch would include GPS. Unfortunately it
didn't, so the iPhone is still the only one with that.

I guess it varies from country to country but here in NZ Vodafone have
recently introduced a plan for $40/month (US$27) -- of which nearly
$12 is effectively paying back the $280 subsidy in the $699 purchase
price on an 8 GB iPhone. Or you can pay the full $979 up front and
use it on prepay, which costs you nothing if you don't use the phone.
Data on prepay costs $1 for anything between 200 KB and 10 MB on a
given a calendar day, or 0.5c/KB if you use less than 200 KB. (and $1
a MB if you go past 10 MB :-( )


As for functionality, seems like it would be great to have a moving map,
glide amoeba, thermal finder, and any other goodies that could be stuffed
in there. I agree that it packs a great deal of power and would be a very
capable machine.

To give people an idea what it can do, it's got very much the same
CPU, RAM and disk (flash) specifications as a high end laptop computer
from around 2000 e.g. the "Pismo" G3 PowerBook, or a 2nd generation
iMac DV (the ones that got FireWire and a DVD drive). The main
exception is that the screen is 20% of the size (153600 pixels vs
786432), but against that the 3D hardware is much better -- I grabbed
the X-Plane version a few days ago and it's very smooth.


Unfortunately Apple has some heavy restrictions on what you can do with
the platform, including one that says "Applications may not be designed or
marketed for real time route guidance". I don't know if that would cover
this sort of software or not. From what I hear it's extremely difficult to
get a definitive answer about these things out of Apple without simply
building the app and trying to get it approved. It is possible to work
around these limitations and bypass Apple for distribution, but it tends
to be more work and limit your audience, making it kind of risky.

It's a bit restrictive if you want to put the program into the
AppStore, yes. I believe that the turn by turn guidance restriction
is purely due to licensing terms for the street maps, and possibly
some liability reasons if you go the wrong way down a one-way street.
If there is any justice then that would not apply to an aviation
application.

For such a specialized application I don't know if getting into the
AppStore is such a big thing. It does simplify the "getting paid"
problem hugely, especially for very cheap programs where transaction
costs would normally kill you, but as the market will be small I don't
think you're going to see a soaring application from anyone for $1 or
$2.

Other distribution mechanisms:

- via Cydia. No restrictions at all, but users have to be prepared to
run Pwnage to "jailbreak" their phones. It's easy, but does
potentially void your warranty. (but if there are any problems it's
99.999% likely that restoring the original software will leave no
traces of naughtiness). And developers have to find a way to get paid
and operate their own store, exactly the same as for every non-iPhone
platform.

- via Apple's "ad hoc" distribution mechanism. A developer can
collect up to 100 iPhone serial numbers from other people and directly
send them a working program that they can install locally via iTunes
(on Mac or Windows). This is intended for beta testing or use in
something like a school.

- anyone who pays Apple's $99 fee (and has a Mac) can become a
developer and compile and install any and as many programs as they
want. That's fine for Open Source programs. It's also easily
possible to distribute 99% of such as program to others as a compiled
library that they can't easily reverse engineer or alter.


In short: the logistics and costs of selling and distributing a
program for the iPhone are similar to any other existing mobile
device. Except if you can get it into the AppStore, in which case it
is uniquely cheap, easy, and convenient for both buyer and seller.

Bruce Hoult wrote:
On Sep 19, 3:59?am, Michael Ash wrote:
It's something I've given some thought to. I don't have an iPhone and
don't want to pay for the expensive subscription, so I was hoping that the
second version of the iPod Touch would include GPS. Unfortunately it
didn't, so the iPhone is still the only one with that.

I guess it varies from country to country but here in NZ Vodafone have
recently introduced a plan for $40/month (US$27) -- of which nearly
$12 is effectively paying back the $280 subsidy in the $699 purchase
price on an 8 GB iPhone. Or you can pay the full $979 up front and
use it on prepay, which costs you nothing if you don't use the phone.
Data on prepay costs $1 for anything between 200 KB and 10 MB on a
given a calendar day, or 0.5c/KB if you use less than 200 KB. (and $1
a MB if you go past 10 MB :-( )

In the US the only option is with a 2-year subscription starting at
$70/month, not including taxes, which push the minimum bill up near
$80/month. My current subscription is about $45/month after taxes and I'm
looking at ways to reduce even that, as I don't make that many calls.

Unfortunately Apple has some heavy restrictions on what you can do with
the platform, including one that says "Applications may not be designed or
marketed for real time route guidance". I don't know if that would cover
this sort of software or not. From what I hear it's extremely difficult to
get a definitive answer about these things out of Apple without simply
building the app and trying to get it approved. It is possible to work
around these limitations and bypass Apple for distribution, but it tends
to be more work and limit your audience, making it kind of risky.

It's a bit restrictive if you want to put the program into the
AppStore, yes. I believe that the turn by turn guidance restriction
is purely due to licensing terms for the street maps, and possibly
some liability reasons if you go the wrong way down a one-way street.
If there is any justice then that would not apply to an aviation
application.

Yes, but we're talking about Apple here....

The main problem is the risk. It *shouldn't* apply to an aviation
application, but the only way to really find out is to actually build the
app, submit it, and see if they let it through. If they don't, that's a
lot of work potentially lost.

For such a specialized application I don't know if getting into the
AppStore is such a big thing. It does simplify the "getting paid"
problem hugely, especially for very cheap programs where transaction
costs would normally kill you, but as the market will be small I don't
think you're going to see a soaring application from anyone for $1 or
$2.

Other distribution mechanisms:
[snip]

I agree, for the price that you're likely to be charging for such a
program, bypassing Apple altogether would become worthwhile. The trouble
is that there's always a risk that Apple will shut these mechanisms down,
but the smart money always goes with the hackers in this kind of contest,
so it's probably not a significant worry.

--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon

On Sep 20, 3:34*am, Michael Ash wrote:
Bruce Hoult wrote:
The main problem is the risk. It *shouldn't* apply to an aviation
application, but the only way to really find out is to actually build the
app, submit it, and see if they let it through. If they don't, that's a
lot of work potentially lost.

Not lost. If you make your plans based on surviving using
distribution independent of Apple then you can submit to the AppStore
and see what happens. If you get in then bonus.

The PodCaster guys are reportedly doing brisk business despite not
being in the AppStore.

On Sep 19, 5:53*pm, Bruce Hoult wrote:
On Sep 20, 3:34*am, Michael Ash wrote:

Bruce Hoult wrote:
The main problem is the risk. It *shouldn't* apply to an aviation
application, but the only way to really find out is to actually build the
app, submit it, and see if they let it through. If they don't, that's a
lot of work potentially lost.

Not lost. *If you make your plans based on surviving using
distribution independent of Apple then you can submit to the AppStore
and see what happens. *If you get in then bonus.

The PodCaster guys are reportedly doing brisk business despite not
being in the AppStore.

The Podcaster guys sell a ~$10 application that Apple can apparently
turn off at any time. The logic why they don't just submit through the
iTunes store is questionable. This is not just an issue if you want to
distribute through the store, it's a base restriction in the SDK.
Anybody wanting to put real effort into doing this is going to want to
sort this out before building the application. Then it's a closed
system and you are always pretty much at Apple's mercy. Which I assume
Bruce is used to thinking about - since if his product is doing Java
compilation then unless you've got a deal with Apple that software is
going to run up against the "other executable code"/interpreted
languages restriction in the SDK agreement...

....Just to hammer this to death I disagree that the comment that the
ecosystem of distributing apps for the iPhone is like other mobile
device. The iPhone is designed to be a closed system. But hey it's a
very pretty closed system. The App store infrastructure is nice for
low margin micro-applications (and why others like Microsoft are
running to catch up) but has more issues for serious applications.
Like the software vendors inability to very rapidly patch things,
Apple being able to make fairly arbitrary decisions, etc. etc.

But again, I'd claim there are practical restrictions today that
probably are showstoppers for a serious application... no I/O over
serial port, bluetooth or USB, no CF/SD card, no file system/file
UI, ... Of all these I'd hope that Apple would add a serial profile to
bluetooth and a (limited) filesystem like UI in future.


Darryl

Bruce Hoult wrote:
On Sep 20, 3:34?am, Michael Ash wrote:
Bruce Hoult wrote:
The main problem is the risk. It *shouldn't* apply to an aviation
application, but the only way to really find out is to actually build the
app, submit it, and see if they let it through. If they don't, that's a
lot of work potentially lost.

Not lost. If you make your plans based on surviving using
distribution independent of Apple then you can submit to the AppStore
and see what happens. If you get in then bonus.

Well, that's why I said "potentially", since the end result depends on
your planning and your market. For a small, cheap app you really lose out,
but a more specialized expensive app is in a better position to use
alternative venues.

The PodCaster guys are reportedly doing brisk business despite not
being in the AppStore.

Not sure how it compares to being in the official store, though,
particularly in the long run. And it's a *lot* more work for them the way
they're currently doing it. Every customer has to be manually added
through Apple's rather cumbersome tools (because they're not meant for
this) and this may have to be re-done for every update they release, I'm
not sure on that point. However this is considerably less of an issue for
specialist soaring software.

--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon

On Sep 18, 1:32*am, "Matt Herron Jr." wrote:
Come up with some good ideas, and maybe I will implement one!

How about porting GlidePlan? Or a nice user friendly sectional chart
viewer?

Unless someone comes up with moving map software that can display
CURRENT sectional chart information, I'll still need to carry paper
charts.

What I do now, is use GlidePlan to print up a 60% 'booklet' of the
charts I plan to fly with. I forget the actual percent shrinkage, but
it's just small enough so one side of the chart fits on a portrait
sized 8.5x11 sheet of paper. I then use 20% page overlap, so I'm
always looking near the middle of a page. The text is pretty small,
but still just barely legible so I can pick up any needed frequencies,
etc.

The viewer program should provide pan and zoom functionality as well
as an automated switch to the next chart as one scrolls off the edge.
It should use the GPS to select the right chart, as well as have a
database of airports & cities, so I could enter such and the proper
chart will be displayed and centered on that location.

-Tom
Who has ATT service with a 5 month old Samsung BlackJack that's way
too dim to use for color apps in sunlight.

BTW, there is GeoPS, a Macintosh application for up and downloading data
from/to a logger. Wouter seems willing to port the app to the iPhone if
there is enough demand.

Have a look at his site and encourage him to do the port!
http://www.human-software.nl/geops/

On Sep 20, 1:22*am, John Smith wrote:
BTW, there is GeoPS, a Macintosh application for up and downloading data
from/to a logger. Wouter seems willing to port the app to the iPhone if
there is enough demand.

Have a look at his site and encourage him to do the port!http://www.human-software.nl/geops/

How will he port this if there is no serial port on the iPhone/iPod
Touch. (unless you want to jail break one and also provide RS-232 line
driver hardware). And you can't use a USB-serial adapter on an iPhone
like you would do on a Mac with this software since it is just a USB
slave.

Darryl

On Sep 18, 12:32*am, "Matt Herron Jr." wrote:
Has anyone thought about applications for the iPhone 3G platform in a
glider? *It has an excellent sunlight readable screen with touch
interface that causes no loss of image quality. *It has an
accelerometer built in, a GPS that is probably better than spot,
wireless for speech commands, remote interfaces, etc. fast processor,
lots of ram for large maps and gesture recognition for panning,
zooming, etc. *Web access (where available) for a quick weather update
before launch. *Seems like an opportunity waiting to happen...

Come up with some good ideas, and maybe I will implement one!

Matt Herron
GlidePlan Inc.http://www.glideplan.com

I've already complained about lack of any way to communicate with an
external GPS but I'm enjoying this so lets bash this a bit more.

I'm not sure what a SPOT satellite messenger and a 3G iPhone GPS have
to do with each other but lets tackle that anyhow... The GPS in the
iPhone 3G is an Infineon PMB2525 Hammerhead II GPS with a really small
antenna (see http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=2261&page=2). The
antenna will be facing the pilot if in a usual PDA type cradle, gee it
might work but it is not a good place for high quality GPS reception
in a glider.

The SPOT Messenger uses a - Nemerix NX2 GPS Chipset (maybe they've
upgraded to the NX3?) with a larger GPS antenna than the iPhone, and
it's antenna is on the top of the device so if placed as intended the
antenna will have a good view of the sky. Both chipsets are similar
and both are aimed at the same market of intelligent devices like
cellphones requiring low power consumption, both chipsets are amazing
for what they can do. So I'd disagree with the comment on the iPhone
GPS being better the SPOT. Not that the comparison is relevent. A
modern GPS receiver that I'd want to use in an aircraft for navigation
purposes with a traditional large antenna correctly oriented to the
sky should do much better than the iPhone GPS, but I'll point out that
many flight computers etc. are doing fine using very old GPS engines,
but it's the antenna location/orientation that can be really
important.

Then there is the CoreLocation API that the iPhone SDK exposes. I'd
not want to try to develop an aviation navigation package on top of
the rudimentary services it exposes. OK so you can get basic info
including altitude, but that's it. Want to look at any low level
settings or status like how many satellites are in view in, etc. you
are SOL. Oh yes and that pesky iPhone SDK agreement prohibits hacking
into any lower level (GPS) interfaces. And there is the supposed
blacklist/killswitch inside the CoreLocation API that allows Apple to
shut off acces to applications using that service they don't like. Try
to use this to navigate an aircraft (if they don't like the route
guidance part), try to bypass the App Store, they might still be able
to get you with the CoreLocation kill switch. So seems if you want to
go that far you might as well jailbreak the phone.

And I think somebody already mentioned that the internal GPS is turned
off when the phone is in Airplane mode. So you'll need to leave the
GSM phone on, violating that FCC rule, but more importantly sucking
power and putting out heat. So you'll definitely need to power the
iPhone from the ship's battery. I have no problem with that but wonder
how hot the iPhone will get in direct sunlight in a hot cockpit and
whether it will handle this any better than the two iPAQ 4700 I own
that suck when they get hot.

So where does that leave us? As I see it the iPhone is pretty piece of
jewelry that as it stands today is unlikely to be useful for a soaring
navigation/display unless you want to jailbreak and hack the phone and
I just don't see the effort/reward there. It is however a damn nice
iPod to take along on flights and handy for finding the nearest
steakhouse for that tired ground crew.

Darryl

On Sep 19, 11:24*pm, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Sep 18, 12:32*am, "Matt Herron Jr." wrote:

Has anyone thought about applications for the iPhone 3G platform in a
glider? *It has an excellent sunlight readable screen with touch
interface that causes no loss of image quality. *It has an
accelerometer built in, a GPS that is probably better than spot,
wireless for speech commands, remote interfaces, etc. fast processor,
lots of ram for large maps and gesture recognition for panning,
zooming, etc. *Web access (where available) for a quick weather update
before launch. *Seems like an opportunity waiting to happen...

Come up with some good ideas, and maybe I will implement one!

Matt Herron
GlidePlan Inc.http://www.glideplan.com

I've already complained about lack of any way to communicate with an
external GPS but I'm enjoying this so lets bash this a bit more.

I'm not sure what a SPOT satellite messenger and a 3G iPhone GPS have
to do with each other but lets tackle that anyhow... The GPS in the
iPhone 3G is an Infineon PMB2525 Hammerhead II GPS with a really small
antenna (seehttp://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=2261&page=2). The
antenna will be facing the pilot if in a usual PDA type cradle, gee it
might work but it is not a good place for high quality GPS reception
in a glider.

The SPOT Messenger uses a - Nemerix NX2 GPS Chipset (maybe they've
upgraded to the NX3?) with a larger GPS antenna than the iPhone, and
it's antenna is on the top of the device so if placed as intended the
antenna will have a good view of the sky. *Both chipsets are similar
and both are aimed at the same market of intelligent devices like
cellphones requiring low power consumption, both chipsets are amazing
for what they can do. So I'd disagree with the comment on the iPhone
GPS being better the SPOT. Not that the comparison is relevent. A
modern GPS receiver that I'd want to use in an aircraft for navigation
purposes with a traditional large antenna correctly oriented to the
sky should do much better than the iPhone GPS, but I'll point out that
many flight computers etc. are doing fine using very old GPS engines,
but it's the antenna location/orientation that can be really
important.

Then there is the CoreLocation API that the iPhone SDK exposes. I'd
not want to try to develop an aviation navigation package on top of
the rudimentary services it exposes. OK so you can get basic info
including altitude, but that's it. Want to look at any low level
settings or status like how many satellites are in view in, etc. you
are SOL. Oh yes and that pesky iPhone SDK agreement prohibits hacking
into any lower level (GPS) interfaces. And there is the supposed
blacklist/killswitch inside the CoreLocation API that allows Apple to
shut off acces to applications using that service they don't like. Try
to use this to navigate an aircraft (if they don't like the route
guidance part), try to bypass the App Store, they might still be able
to get you with the CoreLocation kill switch. So seems if you want to
go that far you might as well jailbreak the phone.

And I think somebody already mentioned that the internal GPS is turned
off when the phone is in Airplane mode. So you'll need to leave the
GSM phone on, violating that FCC rule, but more importantly sucking
power and putting out heat. So you'll definitely need to power the
iPhone from the ship's battery. I have no problem with that but wonder
how hot the iPhone will get in direct sunlight in a hot cockpit and
whether it will handle this any better than the two iPAQ 4700 I own
that suck when they get hot.

So where does that leave us? As I see it the iPhone is pretty piece of
jewelry that as it stands today is unlikely to be useful for a soaring
navigation/display unless you want to jailbreak and hack the phone and
I just don't see the effort/reward there. It is however a damn nice
iPod to take along on flights and handy for finding the nearest
steakhouse for that tired ground crew.

Darryl

BTW Matt I meant to end my rant on a positive tone - a perfect iPhone
application example would be an iPhone friendly version of Dr Jack's
BLIPMAPS starting with a minimalistic website laid out for the iPhone
(I'm building my own simplified pages to get to Jack's files), going
through to an iPhone universal BLIPMAP viewer application, complete
with the ability to store (and recall in flight) things like RASP
convergence charts - things that actually are useful in flight. You
could use the crappy internal GPS to locate where you are located
within that viewer and provide track/heading up map orientation - but
you are not using it for primary navigation. I do use the iPhone now
to check RASP blipmaps before flying and the multi-touch interface is
just beautiful compared to tryign to do this on other mobile devices/
PDAs.


Darryl