Toxic Depleted Uranium Rounds... for Brooks

"Tamas Feher" wrote in message
...
Hello,

Uranium is a heavy metal similar in toxicity
to lead and cadmium and is used in
glassmaking and pottery for colouring.

Uranium is unique, because it burns at high temperatures and turns into
a smoke-like very fine dust.

This is not unique

This dust goes deep into your lungs while
you breathe and causes cancer due to a combination of radiation and
chemical toxicity.


In fact cancer due to Uranium ingestion requires heavy exposures
the IDLH of Uranium is 10 mg /m3 , about the same as Cadmium and
Nickel.



This does not happen with tungsten (wolfram) or lead.


Cadmium with similar toxicity to uranium is also pyrophoric
when finely divided as are many metals. Cadmium is a
known carcinogen

Question: is there any shooting range inside the CONUS with live DU
pratice?

Regards: Tamas Feher.


Yes, Aberdeen proving grounds and Yuma at a minimum.

Keith

"Tamas Feher" wrote in message
...
Hello,

Uranium is a heavy metal similar in toxicity
to lead and cadmium and is used in
glassmaking and pottery for colouring.

Uranium is unique, because it burns at high temperatures and turns into
a smoke-like very fine dust.

This is not unique

This dust goes deep into your lungs while
you breathe and causes cancer due to a combination of radiation and
chemical toxicity.


In fact cancer due to Uranium ingestion requires heavy exposures
the IDLH of Uranium is 10 mg /m3 , about the same as Cadmium and
Nickel.



This does not happen with tungsten (wolfram) or lead.


Cadmium with similar toxicity to uranium is also pyrophoric
when finely divided as are many metals. Cadmium is a
known carcinogen

Question: is there any shooting range inside the CONUS with live DU
pratice?

Regards: Tamas Feher.


Yes, Aberdeen proving grounds and Yuma at a minimum.

Keith

On Fri, 7 May 2004 16:30:54 +0200, "Tamas Feher" wrote:

Hello,

Uranium is a heavy metal similar in toxicity
to lead and cadmium and is used in
glassmaking and pottery for colouring.

Uranium is unique, because it burns at high temperatures and turns into
a smoke-like very fine dust. This dust goes deep into your lungs while
you breathe and causes cancer due to a combination of radiation and
chemical toxicity.

This does not happen with tungsten (wolfram) or lead.

Question: is there any shooting range inside the CONUS with live DU
pratice?

Regards: Tamas Feher.

Do some research. All metals can burn, most at very high temps. There
is no, rpt no, research that finds that DU causes cancer.

Al Minyard

"Thomas J. Paladino Jr." wrote in message
...

snip


All shooting ranges in the US (and NATO) have stopped using heavy-metals
in
all of their training rounds (including small arms). DU was never used as
a
training round to begin with because it is too valuable. The M1 sabot
practice round uses a steel core and behaves exactly as the live round
would.

Not quite. As you noted, lead is also a "heavy metal", and it is still used
in small arms rounds that are fired during training, albeit in fully
jacketed form.

Brooks

"Kevin Brooks" wrote in message
...

"Thomas J. Paladino Jr." wrote in message
...

snip


All shooting ranges in the US (and NATO) have stopped using heavy-metals
in
all of their training rounds (including small arms). DU was never used
as
a
training round to begin with because it is too valuable. The M1 sabot
practice round uses a steel core and behaves exactly as the live round
would.

Not quite. As you noted, lead is also a "heavy metal", and it is still
used
in small arms rounds that are fired during training, albeit in fully
jacketed form.

I actually read recently that all NATO small arms rounds will no longer be
using lead in training, and eventually active service; or at least that it
was being phased out. The so-called 'green bullet'; it uses recycled
tungsten tin or nylon jacketed in copper rather than lead.

This isn't the original artcle that I read, but it came up on a search I
just did and has some good info:

http://www.firearmsid.com/Feature%20...eenBullets.htm

"Thomas J. Paladino Jr." wrote in message
...

"Kevin Brooks" wrote in message
...

"Thomas J. Paladino Jr." wrote in message
...

snip


All shooting ranges in the US (and NATO) have stopped using
heavy-metals
in
all of their training rounds (including small arms). DU was never used
as
a
training round to begin with because it is too valuable. The M1 sabot
practice round uses a steel core and behaves exactly as the live round
would.

Not quite. As you noted, lead is also a "heavy metal", and it is still
used
in small arms rounds that are fired during training, albeit in fully
jacketed form.

I actually read recently that all NATO small arms rounds will no longer be
using lead in training, and eventually active service; or at least that it
was being phased out. The so-called 'green bullet'; it uses recycled
tungsten tin or nylon jacketed in copper rather than lead.

Yep, they have been leaning that way--but last I knew the older rounds are
still being fired. Note that most of the ranges mentioned as being closed
were the indoor variety (just about every reserve/Guard armory had an indoor
range, the vast majority of which were closed and underwent remediation to
handle the lead threat). I believe they already have the tungsten penetrator
in service for the 5.56mm (IIRC it is supposed to have better penetration
capability than the regular FMJ), but the 9mm are still firing FMJ's, as are
I believe most of the 7.62mm and .50 cal (that is a LOT of ammo to
replace...). I'd also be surprised if the military double-ought buckshot
loads for the 12 ga shotguns are anything other than lead...

Brooks


This isn't the original artcle that I read, but it came up on a search I
just did and has some good info:

http://www.firearmsid.com/Feature%20...eenBullets.htm

In article , "Thomas J. Paladino
Jr." wrote:

snipped
(Knew most of this)

All shooting ranges in the US (and NATO) have stopped using heavy-metals in
all of their training rounds (including small arms). DU was never used as a
training round to begin with because it is too valuable. The M1 sabot
practice round uses a steel core and behaves exactly as the live round
would.

Interesting. As a re-loader, I'm curious how a steel core replicates the
sectional density and ballistic coefficient of DU and therefore the ballistics
of the round? After all, DU is about 2.33 times the density of steel (I used
values for Maraging steel, but 300 series is the same, and higher than
alloy steels), so to keep the same mass the round must be bigger,
but that would degrade it's areodynamics.
Can you elucidate? I don't understand.

--
Harry Andreas
Engineering raconteur

"Harry Andreas" wrote in message
...
In article , "Thomas J. Paladino
Jr." wrote:

snipped
(Knew most of this)

All shooting ranges in the US (and NATO) have stopped using heavy-metals
in
all of their training rounds (including small arms). DU was never used
as a
training round to begin with because it is too valuable. The M1 sabot
practice round uses a steel core and behaves exactly as the live round
would.

Interesting. As a re-loader, I'm curious how a steel core replicates the
sectional density and ballistic coefficient of DU and therefore the
ballistics
of the round? After all, DU is about 2.33 times the density of steel (I
used
values for Maraging steel, but 300 series is the same, and higher than
alloy steels), so to keep the same mass the round must be bigger,
but that would degrade it's areodynamics.
Can you elucidate? I don't understand.

It does not have to. When firing the training rounds from the M1A1, the
ballistic computer is set for the APDS training round, just as it is set
differently for the HEAT round vice the DU APDS-FS--the computer adjusts the
aim point accordingly.

Brooks


--
Harry Andreas
Engineering raconteur

On Fri, 07 May 2004 11:57:28 -0700, (Harry Andreas) wrote:

In article , "Thomas J. Paladino
Jr." wrote:

snipped
(Knew most of this)

All shooting ranges in the US (and NATO) have stopped using heavy-metals in
all of their training rounds (including small arms). DU was never used as a
training round to begin with because it is too valuable. The M1 sabot
practice round uses a steel core and behaves exactly as the live round
would.

Interesting. As a re-loader, I'm curious how a steel core replicates the
sectional density and ballistic coefficient of DU and therefore the ballistics
of the round? After all, DU is about 2.33 times the density of steel (I used
values for Maraging steel, but 300 series is the same, and higher than
alloy steels), so to keep the same mass the round must be bigger,
but that would degrade it's areodynamics.
Can you elucidate? I don't understand.

Not to mention that FMJ rounds contain (drum roll please) LEAD.
Lead is a "heavy metal"!!!!!!

Al Minyard

In article ,
on 5 May 2004 11:24:25 -0700,
robert arndt attempted to say .....

http://www.citizen-soldier.org/CS09-uranium.html

It's toxic, moron... and the Germans can do just as much damage with
their tungsten rounds
Believe me, the L55 main gun plus DM-53 ammo will ruin your day.
At least the Germany Army isn't poisoning its own troops by using
"partially-depleted (correct term)uranium"...


Hmmm,
isn't tungsten considered a heavy metal ?

I don't think I'll be jumping in any damaged tanks after a strike of your
"uber"round without the proper protective measures.

I'm not fond of heavy metal poisoning...


--
When dealing with propaganda terminology one sometimes always speaks in
variable absolutes. This is not to be mistaken for an unbiased slant.