Iran's nuclear program

Jim Yanik wrote in message ...
(Thelasian) wrote in
m:

"Jarg" wrote in message
om...
"Thelasian" wrote in message
m...

Not a bad idea, they are one of the worst governments left on the
planet!


Except for say Uzbekistan, Azerbaijan, Israel, and lots of other
US-allied repressive racist tyrannies....


First, I said one of the worst.. Second, the government of Israel,
though not without flaws, is orders of magnitude better than that of
Iran,


Yes, and I am sure the 6 million Palestinians who were driven out of
their homes and refused their rights under the Geneva Convention would
totally agree.

Uh,most of them left voluntarily,under advice from their Grand Mufti.

Brainwashed little parrot, do try to keep up: even Israeli historians
themselves don't shovel that **** any more about how the Palestinians
"voluntarily" left and so Israel is not responsible under
international law to allow them back. Have you read Benny Morris's
Righteous Victims or the Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem (if
not go to Amazon.com and do so)

In the meantime, read what Benny Morris had to say about it in his
interview with Ari Shavit, which appeared in Haaretz, where he admits
that ethnic cleansing occurred by Israel, and then being a good
Zionist, he tries to justify it as "breaking a few eggs":

Q According to your findings, how many acts of Israeli massacre were
perpetrated in 1948?

"Twenty-four. In some cases four or five people were executed, in
others the numbers were 70, 80, 100. There was also a great deal of
arbitrary killing. Two old men are spotted walking in a field - they
are shot. A woman is found in an abandoned village - she is shot.
There are cases such as the village of Dawayima [in the Hebron
region], in which a column entered the village with all guns blazing
and killed anything that moved.

The worst cases were Saliha (70-80 killed), Deir Yassin (100-110), Lod
(250), Dawayima (hundreds) and perhaps Abu Shusha (70). There is no
unequivocal proof of a large-scale massacre at Tantura, but war crimes
were perpetrated there. At Jaffa there was a massacre about which
nothing had been known until now. The same at Arab al Muwassi, in the
north. About half of the acts of massacre were part of Operation Hiram
[in the north, in October 1948]: at Safsaf, Saliha, Jish, Eilaboun,
Arab al Muwasi, Deir al Asad, Majdal Krum, Sasa. In Operation Hiram
there was a unusually high concentration of executions of people
against a wall or next to a well in an orderly fashion.

That can't be chance. It's a pattern. Apparently, various officers who
took part in the operation understood that the expulsion order they
received permitted them to do these deeds in order to encourage the
population to take to the roads. The fact is that no one was punished
for these acts of murder. Ben-Gurion silenced the matter. He covered
up for the officers who did the massacres."

Q What you are telling me here, as though by the way, is that in
Operation Hiram there was a comprehensive and explicit expulsion
order. Is that right?

"Yes. One of the revelations in the book is that on October 31, 1948,
the commander of the Northern Front, Moshe Carmel, issued an order in
writing to his units to expedite the removal of the Arab population.
Carmel took this action immediately after a visit by Ben-Gurion to the
Northern Command in Nazareth. There is no doubt in my mind that this
order originated with Ben-Gurion. Just as the expulsion order for the
city of Lod, which was signed by Yitzhak Rabin, was issued immediately
after Ben-Gurion visited the headquarters of Operation Dani [July
1948]."

Q Are you saying that Ben-Gurion was personally responsible for a
deliberate and systematic policy of mass expulsion?

"From April 1948, Ben-Gurion is projecting a message of transfer.
There is no explicit order of his in writing, there is no orderly
comprehensive policy, but there is an atmosphere of [population]
transfer. The transfer idea is in the air. The entire leadership
understands that this is the idea. The officer corps understands what
is required of them. Under Ben-Gurion, a consensus of transfer is
created."

Q Ben-Gurion was a "transferist"?

"Of course. Ben-Gurion was a transferist. He understood that there
could be no Jewish state with a large and hostile Arab minority in its
midst. There would be no such state. It would not be able to exist."

Q I don't hear you condemning him.

"Ben-Gurion was right. If he had not done what he did, a state would
not have come into being. That has to be clear. It is impossible to
evade it. Without the uprooting of the Palestinians, a Jewish state
would not have arisen here.

Q Benny Morris, for decades you have been researching the dark side of
Zionism. You are an expert on the atrocities of 1948. In the end, do
you in effect justify all this? Are you an advocate of the transfer of
1948?

"There is no justification for acts of rape. There is no justification
for acts of massacre. Those are war crimes. But in certain conditions,
expulsion is not a war crime. I don't think that the expulsions of
1948 were war crimes. You can't make an omelet without breaking eggs.
You have to dirty your hands."

http://www.counterpunch.org/shavit01162004.html




ISTR that there were not even 6 million original 'refugees' resulting from
the 1948 war.I believe you are counting those born in other countries
afterwards.Rather dishonest,IMO.



demonstrated by the relative freedom and prosperity its citizens
enjoy.

You mean JEWISH citizens. Even Arab citizens of Israel are widely
discriminated against in the JEWISH homeland.

Yeah,what ARAB country allows Jews to be in their legislature?
Israel has two "Palestinian" members in the Knesset.
Arabs in Israel are FAR freer and more prosperous than in any of the
neighboring Arab countries,supposedly their friends and supporters.
They expect Jews to allow them to live in Israel(which Israel does),but
will not let Jews live in Arab countries.

The al-Qaeda condition for victory is the obliteration of western society.
Personally I take them at their

Behind each and every successful terrorist organization there is a gov.
agency,Al-Qaeda is no exception.
Al-Qaede itself is proxy of US,kind of a much improved and bigger version of
"Operation Northwoods".

If the interests of a group that make less than 20% of US population but
dominate US for centuries require a spectacular PSYOP with deaths of 100000 US
citizens ,then that will happen.

It did happen in 1861,1898,1941 and almost happened in 1961,so why not in 2001
or later?

"As America becomes an increasingly multicultural society,it may find it more
difficult to fashion a consensus on foreign policy issues,except in
circumstances of a truly massive and widely perceived direct external threat"

Zbigniew Brezezinki,1997,Grand Chessboard

From: "William Wright"
Date: 8/12/2004 12:10 PM Central Daylight Time
Message-id: BwNSc.136515$eM2.70490@attbi_s51


"Denyav" wrote in message
...
The al-Qaeda condition for victory is the obliteration of western
society.
Personally I take them at their

Behind each and every successful terrorist organization there is a gov.
agency,Al-Qaeda is no exception.
Al-Qaede itself is proxy of US,kind of a much improved and bigger version
of
"Operation Northwoods".

If the interests of a group that make less than 20% of US population but
dominate US for centuries require a spectacular PSYOP with deaths of
100000 US
citizens ,then that will happen.

It did happen in 1861,1898,1941 and almost happened in 1961,so why not in
2001
or later?

"As America becomes an increasingly multicultural society,it may find it
more
difficult to fashion a consensus on foreign policy issues,except in
circumstances of a truly massive and widely perceived direct external
threat"

Zbigniew Brezezinki,1997,Grand Chessboard


This is so stupid it is difficult to even know where to start so I won't.

A while back denyev claimed the Nazis detonated 2 atomic devices in 1945 one of
which was in a highly populated area.

He is a manure salesman with a mouth full off samples.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

A while back denyev claimed the Nazis detonated 2 atomic devices in 1945 one
of
which was in a highly populated area.

Do you call a place that even Wehrmact personal were not allowed to enter a
"highly populated " area ?

This is so stupid it is difficult to even know where to start so I won't.


Let me help you,
1861 Ft.Sumter incident (evil Confederates attacked Ft.sumter.Starting of Civil
WAr)
1898 Maine incident (Evil Spaniards destroyed USS Maine.US-Spanish war)
1941 Pearl Harbor.(Evil Japs attacked Pearl Harbor and destroyed relics from
WWI.US enters WWII on Anglo side)
1961 Operation Northwoods.(Evil Cubans supposed to hijack planes and use them
as cruise misilles aganist US civilian targets.Public outcry for revenge
expected to justify the invasion of Cuba.JFK killed Operation Northwoods but he
got killed soon after too)
2001 9/11 (Evil Arabs used commercial planes to attack US targets.The rest is
the history)

If you cannot use Republican Guards to silence the majority like SH,then you
must use PSYOPs .

"Denyav" wrote in message
...
This is so stupid it is difficult to even know where to start so I won't.


Let me help you,
1861 Ft.Sumter incident (evil Confederates attacked Ft.sumter.Starting of
Civil
WAr)
1898 Maine incident (Evil Spaniards destroyed USS Maine.US-Spanish war)
1941 Pearl Harbor.(Evil Japs attacked Pearl Harbor and destroyed relics
from
WWI.US enters WWII on Anglo side)
1961 Operation Northwoods.(Evil Cubans supposed to hijack planes and use
them
as cruise misilles aganist US civilian targets.Public outcry for revenge
expected to justify the invasion of Cuba.JFK killed Operation Northwoods
but he
got killed soon after too)
2001 9/11 (Evil Arabs used commercial planes to attack US targets.The
rest is
the history)

If you cannot use Republican Guards to silence the majority like SH,then
you
must use PSYOPs .


So you think the CIA attacked Fort Sumter

That figures

Keith

From: "Keith Willshaw"
Date: 8/13/2004 3:40 AM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:


"Denyav" wrote in message
...
This is so stupid it is difficult to even know where to start so I won't.


Let me help you,
1861 Ft.Sumter incident (evil Confederates attacked Ft.sumter.Starting of
Civil
WAr)
1898 Maine incident (Evil Spaniards destroyed USS Maine.US-Spanish war)
1941 Pearl Harbor.(Evil Japs attacked Pearl Harbor and destroyed relics
from
WWI.US enters WWII on Anglo side)
1961 Operation Northwoods.(Evil Cubans supposed to hijack planes and use
them
as cruise misilles aganist US civilian targets.Public outcry for revenge
expected to justify the invasion of Cuba.JFK killed Operation Northwoods
but he
got killed soon after too)
2001 9/11 (Evil Arabs used commercial planes to attack US targets.The
rest is
the history)

If you cannot use Republican Guards to silence the majority like SH,then
you
must use PSYOPs .


So you think the CIA attacked Fort Sumter

That figures

Keith

Denyev has pulled this gag before. If you ask him to prove it he can't so he
just repeats the same lies.

Want a real laugh ask him about the two atomic bombs the Nazis tested and how
the U.S. couldn't have built atomic bombs without using Nazi parts and weapons
grade uranium. Apparently the Manhatten Project produced no workable designs
and no weapons grade uranium. To prove Nazi parts were used he will present you
with a photograph of Fat Man with German markings only he can see never mind
the Nazis produced no plutonium.

This, of all his fantasies, is my favourite. It's in the same genre as maron's
"the USAF was responsible for 9/11," teuton's UFOs and Nazi secrets only he
knows, tarver's optical nukes, art's "if you didn't serve in combat your
service was meaningless and you are not a veteran"...etc.

Some energetic individual should publish a book of some of the delusions like
these.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

"B2431" wrote in message
...
From: "Keith Willshaw"


Denyev has pulled this gag before. If you ask him to prove it he can't so
he
just repeats the same lies.

Want a real laugh ask him about the two atomic bombs the Nazis tested and
how
the U.S. couldn't have built atomic bombs without using Nazi parts and
weapons
grade uranium. Apparently the Manhatten Project produced no workable
designs
and no weapons grade uranium. To prove Nazi parts were used he will
present you
with a photograph of Fat Man with German markings only he can see never
mind
the Nazis produced no plutonium.


I've been through all this with him in excruciating detail.
His usual response is that the proof is in documents
so sekrit nobody has ever actually seen them.

Then he retreats into his Hans Kammler did it in Joanastal
fantasy. This involves Nazi UFO's with antigravity engines
armed with nuclear weapons. They must have been real duffers
to let us mere mortals beat them with nothing more than P-51's, Spitfires,
B-17's and Lancasters

Keith


Keith





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I've been through all this with him in excruciating detail.
His usual response is that the proof is in documents
so sekrit nobody has ever actually seen them.

You forgat to mention a small detail,the documents are under lock for 75 years
and that is no secret.

Then he retreats into his Hans Kammler did it in Joanastal
fantasy. This involves Nazi UFO's with antigravity engines
armed with nuclear weapons. T

Where is Kammler?

must have been real duffers
to let us mere mortals beat them with nothing more than P-51's, Spitfires,
B-17's and Lancasters

Sometimes mere mortals do not even need P-51s,Spitfires and Lancasters to beat
Superpowers,box cutters might be more than enough to do job.

"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message ...
"B2431" wrote in message
...
From: "Keith Willshaw"


Denyev has pulled this gag before. If you ask him to prove it he can't so
he
just repeats the same lies.

Want a real laugh ask him about the two atomic bombs the Nazis tested and
how
the U.S. couldn't have built atomic bombs without using Nazi parts and
weapons
grade uranium. Apparently the Manhatten Project produced no workable
designs
and no weapons grade uranium. To prove Nazi parts were used he will
present you
with a photograph of Fat Man with German markings only he can see never
mind
the Nazis produced no plutonium.


I've been through all this with him in excruciating detail.
His usual response is that the proof is in documents
so sekrit nobody has ever actually seen them.

Then he retreats into his Hans Kammler did it in Joanastal
fantasy. This involves Nazi UFO's with antigravity engines
armed with nuclear weapons. They must have been real duffers
to let us mere mortals beat them with nothing more than P-51's, Spitfires,
B-17's and Lancasters

Keith


Keith


Ummm...the use of pretexts as justifications for war is hardly a
conspiracy theory - it is standard practice. The accidental sinking of
the USS Maine, the sinking of the Lusitania, the provocation of the
Mexicans by Taylor...all of these are well documented historical
facts.

WHy, the National Security Archives just last week released recently
declassifed documents which prove (again) that the Gulf of Tonkin
incident (attack on the Maddox) was a manufactured pretext.

This sort of thing is standard practice the world over.








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