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#211
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"Vanishing American Air Superiority"
On Mar 19, 8:22*am, Jim Wilkins wrote:
On Mar 18, 11:45*pm, Chris wrote: On Mar 18, 10:05*pm, Alexander wrote: ... As I already noted in another post, please don't base your ideas for what the Germans could do based on the successes of the Japanese Navy. The Japanese Navy was so much better than the Luftwaffe at sinking ships that the comparison is ludicrous. ... Chris Manteuffel Pearl Harbor was an unexpected attack on close-packed stationary ships, inspired by the British success at Taranto. The Japanese weren't that good at bombing defended shipping at sea, Guadalcanal for example. One can assume that Spitfires would be at least as effective as Wildcats at protecting the ships. jsw Ask the HMS Prince of Wales and HMS Repulse how good the Japanese were at bombing ships in the open sea. |
#212
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"Vanishing American Air Superiority"
On Thu, 18 Mar 2010 21:49:25 -0700 (PDT), "Ken S. Tucker"
wrote: An army of 100,000 could easily turn out 1000 barges a day! Low skill labor, I could organize that. Use math, 30,000/month, disposable on the beach of choice. No hoax, brits would "likely" be overwhelmed. Ken If all it took was barges you might be right. If the barge production was unhindered you might be right. If the barges got where they were going you might be right. But all those "if's" (and a whole lot more) mean that the project was never really feasible. Ever wonder how the Allies supplied themselves after D-Day? They didn't have any functioning ports (and it's unlikely the Germans would have had any). So how did they do it? Research that a bit and you'll see that landing the invasion force is the "tip of the spear" but if there's no "haft" behind it you just generate casualties. Another interesting case study might be the invasion of Guadalcanal. Look at our problems; look at the Japanese problems Once again, amatueurs study tactics; professionals study logistics. |
#213
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"Vanishing American Air Superiority"
On Mar 19, 8:47*am, Bill Kambic wrote:
On Thu, 18 Mar 2010 21:49:25 -0700 (PDT), "Ken S. Tucker" wrote: An army of 100,000 could easily turn out 1000 barges a day! Low skill labor, I could organize that. Use math, 30,000/month, disposable on the beach of choice. No hoax, brits would "likely" be overwhelmed. Ken If all it took was barges you might be right. If the barge production was unhindered you might be right. If the barges got where they were going you might be right. But all those "if's" (and a whole lot more) mean that the project was never really feasible. Ever wonder how the Allies supplied themselves after D-Day? *They didn't have any functioning ports (and it's unlikely the Germans would have had any). *So how did they do it? *Research that a bit and you'll see that landing the invasion force is the "tip of the spear" but if there's no "haft" behind it you just generate casualties. Another interesting case study might be the invasion of Guadalcanal. Look at our problems; look at the Japanese problems Once again, amatueurs study tactics; professionals study logistics. Look up "Mulberry" |
#214
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"Vanishing American Air Superiority"
On Thu, 18 Mar 2010 21:34:42 -0500, Alexander
wrote: If the ports are over run who refuels, rearms the ships that are now toothless. Germany do a helluva a job resupplying their troops megamiles away in Russia. That is until American Airpower mixed with what little airpower England had left wiped out their supply lines. Germany was basically starving to death from 1943 onward and yet damned near turned the tide at the battle of the bulge. With out American logistics England and Russia were flat ****ed! Get over it. You fools made bad decisions and we bailed you out. Now we have made some bad economic decisions and I doubt any of you will even stir to bail us out. Of course we will turn this around on our own as we always have in the past. How did the Allies supply themselves in Normandy without any operational ports? Since the Germans would not have any operational ports, how would they supply themselves? |
#215
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"Vanishing American Air Superiority"
"Alexander" wrote in message ... Keith Willshaw wrote: "Alexander" wrote in message ... William Black wrote: "Alexander" wrote in message ... A determined Germany would have eaten England alive, but for massive war materials and massive military direct aid. Well, assuming they could get there, which they couldn't... Are you really daft enough to believe that would always be? That is a very short Channel. Actually its about 300 miles long. At its narrowest its only about 22 miles wide but that has its own problems. The topography at its narrowest point is rather unfriendly to the invader. Landing on the beach between Folkestone and Deal leaves you at the foot of precipitous cliffs riddled with tunnels and batteries of guns. Think Omaha beach x 10 If you head NE to the beaches around Deal , Sandwich and Ramsgate you greatly increase the length of the sea crossing. Not a good idea when your barges can only do 4 knots especially given that the tidal race in those parts can run at 2-4 knots. Of course there is the little matter that it brings you closer to the RN ships at Harwich, Ramsgate and Chatham That leaves you landing on the beach between Folkestone and Rye. This is an area the British Army had been planning to defend since the Napoleonic wars. Apart from the fixed defenses there were gun batteries placed back from the coast with pre-surveyed fields of fire. There were five fully equipped infantry divisions covering this area with another 5 and an armoured division held in reserve. The Germans would have little or no armour or heavy guns but would be equipped with infantry weapons and a few mountain guns and mortars. Pity the poor soldier of the Heer short of food and ammunition trying to cross the royal military canal under fire from 7.2" and 25 pounder artillery into the teeth of the machine gun fire from the concrete pillboxes on the other side. The purpose of the home guard was NOT so much to fight the German Army as to release regular troops from routine security tasks. paranoid racist diatribe deleted Keith Lots of Concrete Liberty ships would do the job just fine. List of concrete liberty ships built worldwide Start of List End of List The point is really that the UK should learn from its past massive mistakes and never get in this fix again. That was achieved in 1945 with the dismantling of the detestable Nazi regime. Keith |
#216
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"Vanishing American Air Superiority"
"Don Ocean" wrote in message ... Keith Willshaw wrote: "Alexander" wrote in message ... Dan wrote: The US Army Airforce flew all flights both day and night for quite some time. That'll come as news to the RAF My comments regarding air flights were not too wrong as we furnished both pilots and planes prior to Dunkirk. The British were required to pay for any aircraft they received at this time in gold. The aircraft were shipped to Canada and sent over the border from there. With the exception of the F4 Wildcat the American fighters were regarded as second rate and relegated to the ground attack role. Congress passed a special law allowing combat pilots to leave American soil and join the RAF without losing American citizenship. Feel free to provide proof for this assertion. Many Pilots went to Canada and transferred to England from there. Pappy Boyington(US Marine) flew for General Chenault under Chiang kchek(sic) as one example. A little confused as to geography as well as history I see. Not a bit. I won't be telling you any jokes.. it would take days to explain them to you. Chiang Kai Shek was the leader of CHINA and Boyington flew in CHINA not Britain. Wow... you caught on. As for the Daylight vs Night flights..that setup was some time later. Check the archives of the 5th Army Airforce. The 5th Airforce operated in the Phillipines, Australia and the south pacific. You really really need to recheck your data. http://www.yokota.af.mil/library/fac...et.asp?id=6824 Pot Kettle Black You really are confused aren't you. Keith, your senility is overwhelming. I bow to your superior stupidity. ;-p Coming from the man who cant tell the difference between the 5th and 8th air forces or England and China this is funny Keith |
#217
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"Vanishing American Air Superiority"
On Mar 19, 8:55*am, Bill Kambic wrote:
On Thu, 18 Mar 2010 21:34:42 -0500, Alexander wrote: If the ports are over run who refuels, rearms the ships that are now toothless. Germany do a helluva a job resupplying their troops megamiles away in Russia. That is until American Airpower mixed with what little airpower England had left wiped out their supply lines. Germany was basically starving to death from 1943 onward and yet damned near turned the tide at the battle of the bulge. With out American logistics England and Russia were flat ****ed! Get over it. You fools made bad decisions and we bailed you out. Now we have made some bad economic decisions and I doubt any of you will even stir to bail us out. Of course we will turn this around on our own as we always have in the past. How did the Allies supply themselves in Normandy without any operational ports? *Since the Germans would not have any operational ports, how would they supply themselves? As I said in another response to this question "look up 'Mulberry'" |
#218
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"Vanishing American Air Superiority"
On Fri, 19 Mar 2010 05:32:45 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
wrote: On Mar 19, 8:22*am, Jim Wilkins wrote: On Mar 18, 11:45*pm, Chris wrote: On Mar 18, 10:05*pm, Alexander wrote: ... As I already noted in another post, please don't base your ideas for what the Germans could do based on the successes of the Japanese Navy. The Japanese Navy was so much better than the Luftwaffe at sinking ships that the comparison is ludicrous. ... Chris Manteuffel Pearl Harbor was an unexpected attack on close-packed stationary ships, inspired by the British success at Taranto. The Japanese weren't that good at bombing defended shipping at sea, Guadalcanal for example. One can assume that Spitfires would be at least as effective as Wildcats at protecting the ships. jsw Ask the HMS Prince of Wales and HMS Repulse how good the Japanese were at bombing ships in the open sea. Jack, he said defended shipping and clarified his meaning by a comment about defending aircraft. You really must start reading the stuff you respond to. Peter Skelton |
#219
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"Vanishing American Air Superiority"
Alexander wrote:
Dan wrote: Alexander wrote: snip Face it.. You people started 2 wars against Germany, which if we had not interfered would have kicked your asses bloody. For Christs sake, learn your lesson and don't start any more damned wars. Same goes for us. Read a history book. Germany invaded her neighbours unprovoked at the start of both world wars. Bull****. Provocation was there and it would have ended very quietly, except for the English perfidy. Damned limeys were forever tinkering in the business of others. The "limeys" didn't invade Poland, Russia and France in WW2 nor did they invade Russia or France in WW1. There might have been a lot of bluster all around prior to both wars, but Germany started shooting first. No one in America wanted any part of that war. Not true. The Idiot Wilson decided he needed some imperialism to beat Teddy Roosevelt in the upcoming 1917 election. So, Zimmeran's telegram and the ongoing sinking of commerce had no influence on Wilson's request for a declaration of war? Under the Constitution only Congress can issue a declaration of war. Even Teddy thought it was a stupid move. It was. Noting your bias against the UK and Israel I'm sure you will find a way to blame those 2 countries anyway. I lay blame where blame is due. Obviously you neglected your oxygen a few too many times. Our business is America. Do try and remember that. Even the US Airforce's business is America. By the way...Some of Englands loudest critics are the English themselves. There is no true UK anymore. Israel just told America to go **** itself. They did the same to President Eisenhower. We do not have any need to keep destroying our economy for the Zionist Ashkenazi Jews of Israel. Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired I can see why! No, you can't see why. It's simple, I did 20+ years. Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired |
#220
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"Vanishing American Air Superiority"
Keith Willshaw wrote:
"Ken S. Tucker" wrote in message ... An army of 100,000 could easily turn out 1000 barges a day! Low skill labor, I could organize that. Who would make the oars ? Use math, 30,000/month, disposable on the beach of choice. No hoax, brits would "likely" be overwhelmed. Ken I think its very nice that the asylum allows you access to the internet but they really should take more care about your medication. Keith Can you imagine 30,000 underpowered barges drifting around the Channel at night with the RN running laps through the herd swamping them for sport? No need to shoot, just raise a wake. Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired |
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