Landing without flaps

In article ,
Dudley Henriques wrote:

Dan wrote:
On Mar 8, 11:40 am, Dudley Henriques wrote:
Ken S. Tucker wrote:
On Mar 7, 5:01 pm, wrote:
On Mar 7, 1:02 pm, "Ken S. Tucker" wrote:
Dud, you've never been in an airplane, and you're
NOT an instructor. I'm a prof teacher and I can
sniff your bad **** off the net, you're a phony!
If Dudley or Bertie are frauds, they are very, very good frauds.
The terminology and all other aspects of their posts regarding
aviation and learning to fly are accurate and perceptive. There would
be few folks who could come up with this stuff unless they were
savants of some sort. Those of us who actually fly have little
argument with most of what they say.
There are some other posters here who were obvious frauds from
the start. And the more they post, the deeper they dig their holes of
discredit. They're just incredible.
Anybody can sound good on the net where knowledge
is concerned, but you can't fake an attitude for long.
Pulling mixture or fooling with fuel valves immediately after
takeoff is asking to die. Soon.
No not really, Mr. Buttman is not a suicidal maniac
and one has to presume if the pilot didn't react
properly he take control and have that figured out.
Pulling the throttle has the same
engine-loss effect without the extreme risk associated with killing
the engine. Pulling mixture or fuel also carries
the more remote risk of a control failure, whereby the mixture control
cable or fuel valve linkage breaks at that exact moment, making a
recovery of the engine impossible.
Sure that can happen. I suppose that's part of the
point of Mr. Buttman's suggested exercise.
In the last 15 years or so we've
had a throttle cable failure and a carb heat cable failure, so now we
replace all the controls when we replace the engine. There's no legal
requirement to do it, but after seeing old controls break I decided
that it was going to get done.
Dan
My personal fear is loosing elevator control, it's
very rare, but that Alaska Air crash a few years
back (in the Pacific) was blamed on the screw
that adjusts the elevator getting stripped or jammed.
Ken
The answer to this entire issue is quite easily proved one way or the
other.
Anyone.....and I mean ANYONE, reading about this issue here can easily
pick up the phone and call their local FAA office here in the United
States anyway, and ask for an official opinion on the following
question. (Someone please do this :-)
"Is it acceptable procedure for a flight instructor to turn off a fuel
valve on a student on takeoff causing fuel starvation and subsequent
engine failure as a teaching method"

No flames......no back and forth on who's an idiot or who's a fraud; no
banter on who's a good instructor and who isn't.....simply get the
official position of the authoritative body officially responsible for
flight instruction and flight safety in the United States.......then
post the answer right here for the world to see.

How fair and up front is that?

--
Dudley Henriques

That's way too easy and implies moments away from the computer.

Are you KIDDING?

Sheese...


Dan
I actually went out this week and bought a new Macbook Air just for
Usenet and email. Wish I'd waited a bit longer though. I'm getting more
disillusioned with Usenet by the minute :-))))

Say...if you decide to give up on usenet for sure, I'll take that
MacBook Air off your hands.

Because I'm all about being helpful. :}

On Mar 8, 3:51 pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
buttman wrote in news:f7c7fb2b-5e30-4e34-9bf2-
:



On Mar 8, 3:41 pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
buttman wrote in news:592caddb-a61d-4cfe-a408-
:

On Mar 8, 3:31 pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
buttman wrote in news:a60b25cb-6a8a-4ecf-889e-
:

Either a pathetic cry for attention, or the best news I've heard
all
day. Hoping for the latter.

Neither, fjukkwit.

Bertie

awww, sticking up for your boyfriend

at least now we now know which one wears the pants in this
relationship...

Nice try buttboi. don;'t yuo have an airplane to demolish somewhere?

Bertie

don';t yuo have a 8410 to fraudulently endorse somewhere?

Is there anything you're good at? you sure ain't very good at this.

Bertie

If only the Dud could take you with him...

Steve Hix wrote:
In article ,
Dudley Henriques wrote:

Dan wrote:
On Mar 8, 11:40 am, Dudley Henriques wrote:
Ken S. Tucker wrote:
On Mar 7, 5:01 pm, wrote:
On Mar 7, 1:02 pm, "Ken S. Tucker" wrote:
Dud, you've never been in an airplane, and you're
NOT an instructor. I'm a prof teacher and I can
sniff your bad **** off the net, you're a phony!
If Dudley or Bertie are frauds, they are very, very good frauds.
The terminology and all other aspects of their posts regarding
aviation and learning to fly are accurate and perceptive. There would
be few folks who could come up with this stuff unless they were
savants of some sort. Those of us who actually fly have little
argument with most of what they say.
There are some other posters here who were obvious frauds from
the start. And the more they post, the deeper they dig their holes of
discredit. They're just incredible.
Anybody can sound good on the net where knowledge
is concerned, but you can't fake an attitude for long.
Pulling mixture or fooling with fuel valves immediately after
takeoff is asking to die. Soon.
No not really, Mr. Buttman is not a suicidal maniac
and one has to presume if the pilot didn't react
properly he take control and have that figured out.
Pulling the throttle has the same
engine-loss effect without the extreme risk associated with killing
the engine. Pulling mixture or fuel also carries
the more remote risk of a control failure, whereby the mixture control
cable or fuel valve linkage breaks at that exact moment, making a
recovery of the engine impossible.
Sure that can happen. I suppose that's part of the
point of Mr. Buttman's suggested exercise.
In the last 15 years or so we've
had a throttle cable failure and a carb heat cable failure, so now we
replace all the controls when we replace the engine. There's no legal
requirement to do it, but after seeing old controls break I decided
that it was going to get done.
Dan
My personal fear is loosing elevator control, it's
very rare, but that Alaska Air crash a few years
back (in the Pacific) was blamed on the screw
that adjusts the elevator getting stripped or jammed.
Ken
The answer to this entire issue is quite easily proved one way or the
other.
Anyone.....and I mean ANYONE, reading about this issue here can easily
pick up the phone and call their local FAA office here in the United
States anyway, and ask for an official opinion on the following
question. (Someone please do this :-)
"Is it acceptable procedure for a flight instructor to turn off a fuel
valve on a student on takeoff causing fuel starvation and subsequent
engine failure as a teaching method"

No flames......no back and forth on who's an idiot or who's a fraud; no
banter on who's a good instructor and who isn't.....simply get the
official position of the authoritative body officially responsible for
flight instruction and flight safety in the United States.......then
post the answer right here for the world to see.

How fair and up front is that?

--
Dudley Henriques
That's way too easy and implies moments away from the computer.

Are you KIDDING?

Sheese...


Dan
I actually went out this week and bought a new Macbook Air just for
Usenet and email. Wish I'd waited a bit longer though. I'm getting more
disillusioned with Usenet by the minute :-))))

Say...if you decide to give up on usenet for sure, I'll take that
MacBook Air off your hands.

Because I'm all about being helpful. :}
Hey..I LOVE this thing! It's amazing. This is my second Mac. I have an
IMac downstairs that serves as a wireless relay for the Macbook Air with
the laser printer.
I use a high end gaming PC for the flight simulator only. I'll never
again buy a PC for anything but the sim. I'm completely sold on Apple!


--
Dudley Henriques

In article ,
Dudley Henriques wrote:

Steve Hix wrote:
In article ,
Dudley Henriques wrote:

Dan wrote:
On Mar 8, 11:40 am, Dudley Henriques wrote:
Ken S. Tucker wrote:
On Mar 7, 5:01 pm, wrote:
On Mar 7, 1:02 pm, "Ken S. Tucker" wrote:
Dud, you've never been in an airplane, and you're
NOT an instructor. I'm a prof teacher and I can
sniff your bad **** off the net, you're a phony!
If Dudley or Bertie are frauds, they are very, very good frauds.
The terminology and all other aspects of their posts regarding
aviation and learning to fly are accurate and perceptive. There would
be few folks who could come up with this stuff unless they were
savants of some sort. Those of us who actually fly have little
argument with most of what they say.
There are some other posters here who were obvious frauds from
the start. And the more they post, the deeper they dig their holes of
discredit. They're just incredible.
Anybody can sound good on the net where knowledge
is concerned, but you can't fake an attitude for long.
Pulling mixture or fooling with fuel valves immediately after
takeoff is asking to die. Soon.
No not really, Mr. Buttman is not a suicidal maniac
and one has to presume if the pilot didn't react
properly he take control and have that figured out.
Pulling the throttle has the same
engine-loss effect without the extreme risk associated with killing
the engine. Pulling mixture or fuel also carries
the more remote risk of a control failure, whereby the mixture control
cable or fuel valve linkage breaks at that exact moment, making a
recovery of the engine impossible.
Sure that can happen. I suppose that's part of the
point of Mr. Buttman's suggested exercise.
In the last 15 years or so we've
had a throttle cable failure and a carb heat cable failure, so now we
replace all the controls when we replace the engine. There's no legal
requirement to do it, but after seeing old controls break I decided
that it was going to get done.
Dan
My personal fear is loosing elevator control, it's
very rare, but that Alaska Air crash a few years
back (in the Pacific) was blamed on the screw
that adjusts the elevator getting stripped or jammed.
Ken
The answer to this entire issue is quite easily proved one way or the
other.
Anyone.....and I mean ANYONE, reading about this issue here can easily
pick up the phone and call their local FAA office here in the United
States anyway, and ask for an official opinion on the following
question. (Someone please do this :-)
"Is it acceptable procedure for a flight instructor to turn off a fuel
valve on a student on takeoff causing fuel starvation and subsequent
engine failure as a teaching method"

No flames......no back and forth on who's an idiot or who's a fraud; no
banter on who's a good instructor and who isn't.....simply get the
official position of the authoritative body officially responsible for
flight instruction and flight safety in the United States.......then
post the answer right here for the world to see.

How fair and up front is that?

--
Dudley Henriques
That's way too easy and implies moments away from the computer.

Are you KIDDING?

Sheese...


Dan
I actually went out this week and bought a new Macbook Air just for
Usenet and email. Wish I'd waited a bit longer though. I'm getting more
disillusioned with Usenet by the minute :-))))

Say...if you decide to give up on usenet for sure, I'll take that
MacBook Air off your hands.

Because I'm all about being helpful. :}
Hey..I LOVE this thing! It's amazing. This is my second Mac. I have an
IMac downstairs that serves as a wireless relay for the Macbook Air with
the laser printer.
I use a high end gaming PC for the flight simulator only. I'll never
again buy a PC for anything but the sim. I'm completely sold on Apple!

Yeah, they work pretty well.

On Sat, 8 Mar 2008 15:07:56 -0800 (PST), Ken S. Tucker wrote:

On Fri, 7 Mar 2008 22:37:55 -0800 (PST), Ken S. Tucker wrote:
Every pilot is elated to ascend following rotation,
but what should you do if your engine sputters
and quits while climbing at just a few hundred feet.

Off hand I'd suggest pushing the yoke forward to
use decent to prevent stall, because the stall can
happen real fast in that attitude, so be prepared.
((Don't freeze like a deer in head lights)).

Glide back to the runway or have knowledge of a
safe alternative and use it.
Ken

Wow, Ken, even *I* know this is idiotic.

My thoughts a Given no good alternative aside
from the runway, know the x-wind at T-O, do max
ascent into the wind as is normal, then if the engine
quit's (do radio) do a descending gentle 20 into the
x-wind, and come back and set the ship down.
I think the key is max ascent rate, that's insurance.
Ken

Ken, the simple geometries don't work. Regardless of aircraft
characteristics. Are you willing to bet your life on these false
assumptions?
--
Remove numbers for gmail and for God's sake it ain't "gee" either!

On Mar 9, 6:54*pm, "Owner" wrote:
"WJRFlyBoy" wrote in message

...





On Sat, 8 Mar 2008 15:07:56 -0800 (PST), Ken S. Tucker wrote:

On Fri, 7 Mar 2008 22:37:55 -0800 (PST), Ken S. Tucker wrote:
Every pilot is elated to ascend following rotation,
but what should you do if your engine sputters
and quits while climbing at just a few hundred feet.

Off hand I'd suggest pushing the yoke forward to
use decent to prevent stall, because the stall can
happen real fast in that attitude, so be prepared.
((Don't freeze like a deer in head lights)).

Glide back to the runway or have knowledge of a
safe alternative and use it.
Ken

Wow, Ken, even *I* know this is idiotic.

My thoughts a Given no good alternative aside
from the runway, know the x-wind at T-O, do max
ascent into the wind as is normal, then if the engine
quit's (do radio) do a descending gentle 20 into the
x-wind, and come back and set the ship down.
I think the key is max ascent rate, that's insurance.
Ken

Ken, the simple geometries don't work. Regardless of aircraft
characteristics. Are you willing to bet your life on these false
assumptions?
--
Remove numbers for gmail and for God's sake it ain't "gee" either!

No worries, I don't believe anyone has ever been injured or killed using MS
Flight Simulator - Hide quoted text -


Not true. There are strong rumours that the personality known as
Anthony A....i died as a results of playing it too much in Paris. His
alter ego, Mxmaniac was injured by trying to simulate a "sexy
manouver". It turned out that a joy stick did not live up to his
expectations.

Cheers

On Mar 9, 1:50*pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:
Steve Hix wrote:
In article ,
*Dudley Henriques wrote:

Dan wrote:
On Mar 8, 11:40 am, Dudley Henriques wrote:
Ken S. Tucker wrote:
On Mar 7, 5:01 pm, wrote:
On Mar 7, 1:02 pm, "Ken S. Tucker" wrote:
Dud, you've never been in an airplane, and you're
NOT an instructor. I'm a prof teacher and I can
sniff your bad **** off the net, you're a phony!
* * *If Dudley or Bertie are frauds, they are very, very good frauds.
The terminology and all other aspects of their posts regarding
aviation and learning to fly are accurate and perceptive. There would
be few folks who could come up with this stuff unless they were
savants of some sort. Those of us who actually fly have little
argument with most of what they say.
* * *There are some other posters here who were obvious frauds from
the start. And the more they post, the deeper they dig their holes of
discredit. They're just incredible.
Anybody can sound good on the net where knowledge
is concerned, but you can't fake an attitude for long.
* * *Pulling mixture or fooling with fuel valves immediately after
takeoff is asking to die. Soon.
No not really, Mr. Buttman is not a suicidal maniac
and one has to presume if the pilot didn't react
properly he take control and have that figured out.
Pulling the throttle has the same
engine-loss effect without the extreme risk associated with killing
the engine. Pulling mixture or fuel also carries
the more remote risk of a control failure, whereby the mixture control
cable or fuel valve linkage breaks at that exact moment, making a
recovery of the engine impossible.
Sure that can happen. I suppose that's part of the
point of Mr. Buttman's suggested exercise.
In the last 15 years or so we've
had a throttle cable failure and a carb heat cable failure, so now we
replace all the controls when we replace the engine. There's no legal
requirement to do it, but after seeing old controls break I decided
that it was going to get done.
* * * * Dan
My personal fear is loosing elevator control, it's
very rare, but that Alaska Air crash a few years
back (in the Pacific) was blamed on the screw
that adjusts the elevator getting stripped or jammed.
Ken
The answer to this entire issue is quite easily proved one way or the
other.
Anyone.....and I mean ANYONE, reading about this issue here can easily
pick up the phone and call their local FAA office here in the United
States anyway, and ask for an official opinion on the following
question. (Someone please do this :-)
"Is it acceptable procedure for a flight instructor to turn off a fuel
valve on a student on takeoff causing fuel starvation and subsequent
engine failure as a teaching method"

No flames......no back and forth on who's an idiot or who's a fraud; no
banter on who's a good instructor and who isn't.....simply get the
official position of the authoritative body officially responsible for
flight instruction and flight safety in the United States.......then
post the answer right here for the world to see.

How fair and up front is that?

--
Dudley Henriques
That's way too easy and implies moments away from the computer.

Are you KIDDING?

Sheese...

Dan
I actually went out this week and bought a new Macbook Air just for
Usenet and email. Wish I'd waited a bit longer though. I'm getting more
disillusioned with Usenet by the minute :-))))

Say...if you decide to give up on usenet for sure, I'll take that
MacBook Air off your hands.

Because I'm all about being helpful. *:}

Hey..I LOVE this thing! It's amazing. This is my second Mac. I have an
IMac downstairs that serves as a wireless relay for the Macbook Air with
the laser printer.
I use a high end gaming PC for the flight simulator only. I'll never
again buy a PC for anything but the sim. I'm completely sold on Apple!

--
Dudley Henriques- Hide quoted text -



Just make sure you have a service contract. I've has two Mac laptop
diplays die in 3 years -never had a similar prob with a PC by the way.
Most disappointing as they are now a really good machine -not as
crippled as a PC by windoze.

Cheers

WingFlaps wrote:
On Mar 9, 1:50 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:
Steve Hix wrote:
In article ,
Dudley Henriques wrote:
Dan wrote:
On Mar 8, 11:40 am, Dudley Henriques wrote:
Ken S. Tucker wrote:
On Mar 7, 5:01 pm, wrote:
On Mar 7, 1:02 pm, "Ken S. Tucker" wrote:
Dud, you've never been in an airplane, and you're
NOT an instructor. I'm a prof teacher and I can
sniff your bad **** off the net, you're a phony!
If Dudley or Bertie are frauds, they are very, very good frauds.
The terminology and all other aspects of their posts regarding
aviation and learning to fly are accurate and perceptive. There would
be few folks who could come up with this stuff unless they were
savants of some sort. Those of us who actually fly have little
argument with most of what they say.
There are some other posters here who were obvious frauds from
the start. And the more they post, the deeper they dig their holes of
discredit. They're just incredible.
Anybody can sound good on the net where knowledge
is concerned, but you can't fake an attitude for long.
Pulling mixture or fooling with fuel valves immediately after
takeoff is asking to die. Soon.
No not really, Mr. Buttman is not a suicidal maniac
and one has to presume if the pilot didn't react
properly he take control and have that figured out.
Pulling the throttle has the same
engine-loss effect without the extreme risk associated with killing
the engine. Pulling mixture or fuel also carries
the more remote risk of a control failure, whereby the mixture control
cable or fuel valve linkage breaks at that exact moment, making a
recovery of the engine impossible.
Sure that can happen. I suppose that's part of the
point of Mr. Buttman's suggested exercise.
In the last 15 years or so we've
had a throttle cable failure and a carb heat cable failure, so now we
replace all the controls when we replace the engine. There's no legal
requirement to do it, but after seeing old controls break I decided
that it was going to get done.
Dan
My personal fear is loosing elevator control, it's
very rare, but that Alaska Air crash a few years
back (in the Pacific) was blamed on the screw
that adjusts the elevator getting stripped or jammed.
Ken
The answer to this entire issue is quite easily proved one way or the
other.
Anyone.....and I mean ANYONE, reading about this issue here can easily
pick up the phone and call their local FAA office here in the United
States anyway, and ask for an official opinion on the following
question. (Someone please do this :-)
"Is it acceptable procedure for a flight instructor to turn off a fuel
valve on a student on takeoff causing fuel starvation and subsequent
engine failure as a teaching method"
No flames......no back and forth on who's an idiot or who's a fraud; no
banter on who's a good instructor and who isn't.....simply get the
official position of the authoritative body officially responsible for
flight instruction and flight safety in the United States.......then
post the answer right here for the world to see.
How fair and up front is that?
--
Dudley Henriques
That's way too easy and implies moments away from the computer.
Are you KIDDING?
Sheese...
Dan
I actually went out this week and bought a new Macbook Air just for
Usenet and email. Wish I'd waited a bit longer though. I'm getting more
disillusioned with Usenet by the minute :-))))
Say...if you decide to give up on usenet for sure, I'll take that
MacBook Air off your hands.
Because I'm all about being helpful. :}
Hey..I LOVE this thing! It's amazing. This is my second Mac. I have an
IMac downstairs that serves as a wireless relay for the Macbook Air with
the laser printer.
I use a high end gaming PC for the flight simulator only. I'll never
again buy a PC for anything but the sim. I'm completely sold on Apple!

--
Dudley Henriques- Hide quoted text -



Just make sure you have a service contract. I've has two Mac laptop
diplays die in 3 years -never had a similar prob with a PC by the way.
Most disappointing as they are now a really good machine -not as
crippled as a PC by windoze.

Cheers

I have the Apple Care Plan. So far no issues.

--
Dudley Henriques

buttman wrote:
On Mar 8, 3:51 pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
buttman wrote in news:f7c7fb2b-5e30-4e34-9bf2-
:



On Mar 8, 3:41 pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
buttman wrote in news:592caddb-a61d-4cfe-a408-
:
On Mar 8, 3:31 pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
buttman wrote in news:a60b25cb-6a8a-4ecf-889e-
:
Either a pathetic cry for attention, or the best news I've heard
all
day. Hoping for the latter.
Neither, fjukkwit.
Bertie
awww, sticking up for your boyfriend
at least now we now know which one wears the pants in this
relationship...
Nice try buttboi. don;'t yuo have an airplane to demolish somewhere?
Bertie
don';t yuo have a 8410 to fraudulently endorse somewhere?
Is there anything you're good at? you sure ain't very good at this.

Bertie

If only the Dud could take you with him...

You DO seem to have this strange judgment problem don't you?

Sorry to disappointed you but I've not gone anywhere and will most
likely be your Usenet "companion" for a very long time . :-))

Simply decided that I've exhausted enough time on this issue; that you
are not going to be affected in any way that will make the students who
fly with you any safer by anything I've attempted to tell you.

Judging from the posting I've seen on your fuel starvation on takeoff
issue, it would appear there are now more than enough experienced and
qualified pilots here who along with me have recognized the fact that
you are not using safe practices as a CFI.

I'm sure you and I will be enjoying a long term relationship on this
forum :-))

All the best to you

--
Dudley Henriques

On Sun, 9 Mar 2008 00:43:27 -0800 (PST), WingFlaps
wrote:
snip
Just make sure you have a service contract. I've has two Mac laptop
diplays die in 3 years -never had a similar prob with a PC by the way.
Most disappointing as they are now a really good machine -not as
crippled as a PC by windoze.

That's why I use LINUX on most of the machines:-))

Cheers
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com