NW_Pilot's Trans-Atlantic Flight -- All the scary details...

NW_Pilot schrieb:

Look where the plane went! I assure you that it is going to over fly water
again in IMC conditions!

In the Arab desert? Ok, there's a lot more about Arabia than just
desert, I know.

But this is beside the point anyway. The point is, the buyer of a new
plane decides what instruments he wants to be fitted. If the buyer
decides he wants just the basics as a backup, then this is the buyers
decision and neither Cessna's nor Garmin's. And I do perfectly
understand if this buyer doesn't want to spend a couple of thousand for
instruments which might be useful just for the ferry flight. After all,
you knew this acted accordingly: You had an independant radio and an
independant GPS as backup with you.

Stefan

Matt Whiting schrieb:

I'd prefer it for all flights given the importance of fuel supply in an
airplane and given the fairly high rate of fuel exhaustion incidents. I
especially want redundancy with a system as fragile as the G1000 appears
to be.

Ok, so you want the FAA jump in and require full redundancy on all
instruments for all privately operated light singles to be considered
airworthy? I'm not sure you really want this.

(Heck, I fly routinely with T&B, ASI, Altimeter and whisky compass in
clouds, with no Garmin whatsoever in the first place. Granted, not 200
miles over water and on no other mission than for the fun of it.)

Stefan

On Thu, 05 Oct 2006 20:19:46 -0000, Jim Logajan wrote in :

"Martin X. Moleski, SJ" wrote:
Jim Logajan wrote:
"Martin X. Moleski, SJ" wrote:
Judah wrote:
"Montblack" wrote:
"Judah" wrote:

Are you aware that the Jews have the monopoly on answering a
question with a question?

You don't say?

Did you think that making a statement and putting a question mark at
the end counts as a question?

Are we really playing the question game here on r.a.p.?

What kind of rhetorical question is that?

What right do you have to question my question?

Who do you think you are that you can question my question of your
question? (Did I get that right?)

Would I be stupid enough to fall into that trap?

(Does the question game come from Roar of the
Greasepaint, Smell of the Crowd? Or am I
misremembering it entirely?)

How would I know?

Didn't the TV show "Whose Line is it Anyway?" have a game called "Questions
Only" where the participants could only act out a scene using questions?

Would http://www.ifilm.com/ifilmdetail/2772527 be a link to
that very scene?

Marty

"Stefan" wrote in message
...
NW_Pilot schrieb:

Look where the plane went! I assure you that it is going to over fly
water again in IMC conditions!

In the Arab desert? Ok, there's a lot more about Arabia than just desert,
I know.

Wow look at a map dude!!!! Beirut, Lebanon is not just desert there is a lot
of water along it's west coast! Saudi was the alternate landing point but
they got me permission to land in Beirut, Lebanon that was it's destination!

Oh!!! That's another feeling in it's self landing in a place where you know
some surface to ground firepower is aimed at you by someone with an itchy
trigger finger :-)

"Doug" wrote in message
ups.com...
Yeah, and I'll bet that handheld was a Garmin....


Nope, Not a Garmin!!

I think its reasonable to think that some of the G1000's wiring or the
unit itself was damaged during this hack. Even attaching the power to the
ADF or entertainment system in a way that caused the power to the G1000 to
be flaky or intermittent could account for the drastic failure modes he
experienced.

Good point.

Jose
--
"Never trust anything that can think for itself, if you can't see where
it keeps its brain." (chapter 10 of book 3 - Harry Potter).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

In article ,
Jim Logajan wrote:

Didn't the TV show "Whose Line is it Anyway?" have a game called "Questions
Only" where the participants could only act out a scene using questions?

Did you enjoy it?

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

NW_Pilot wrote:

Oh!!! That's another feeling in it's self landing in a place where you know
some surface to ground firepower is aimed at you by someone with an itchy
trigger finger :-)


and you know that this nice shiny new american airplane is owned by
american evangelical christians and wondering who else might know that.


dan

"houstondan" wrote in message
oups.com...

NW_Pilot wrote:

Oh!!! That's another feeling in it's self landing in a place where you
know
some surface to ground firepower is aimed at you by someone with an itchy
trigger finger :-)


and you know that this nice shiny new american airplane is owned by
american evangelical christians and wondering who else might know that.


dan


No the owner of that airplane was Muslim!

1) All avionics software implements internal isolation to prevent one
part of the system from taking down another part.
2) A faulty fuel reading cannot cause the system to reboot. In addition
to testing every possible faulty fuel value, I've tested every
combination of faulty sensor readings related to this thread and am
unable to get anything out of the ordinary to happen. The picture of
the fuel sensor with the red X is correct behavior when a gauge is
fauly or giving erroneous data.
3) When the system reboots due to a software error, a very obvious
message with a very obvious color is displayed on the screen prior to
the reboot. Was this seen? I have seen no mention of it.
4) FYI to a few: the CO message is indicating an error in the detector,
not CO in the cabin.

What was going on with the second display?
Was the "Initializing System" message being displayed each time it
'rebooted'?
During the 15minute intervals between reboots, how operational was the
system?

I won't delve into the actual debate issues of whether to go glass,
realtime reliability vs. features demanded, benefits vs. risk of
various situational awareness methods, or anything like that. I'm just
trying to get the facts straight. No software engineer would claim a
flawless system, but the facts so far do not allow for a simple answer
such as the fuel gauge or airspeed indication being the only cause.
Something very strange had to be going with where that escaping fuel
was going. If it was affecting three gauges (airspeed, co detector,
fuel) in a measurable way, who knows what it could have been doing to
less obvious internal wirings of the aircraft. I've never heard of a
report of a continuously rebooting system, and there are a lot out
there. The somewhat drastic customizations and the newness of the
aircraft add to suspicion. That said, there's no excuse for a failure,
wherever in the aircraft that failure is determined to be.

PS: I appreciate the balanced feedback and analysis of most of this
group. Don't feed the 20% trolls.