Landing without flaps

buttman wrote in news:97f7641b-9394-499b-93eb-
:

On Mar 8, 3:51 pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
buttman wrote in news:f7c7fb2b-5e30-4e34-9bf2-
:



On Mar 8, 3:41 pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
buttman wrote in news:592caddb-a61d-4cfe-a408-
:

On Mar 8, 3:31 pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
buttman wrote in news:a60b25cb-6a8a-4ecf-
889e-
:

Either a pathetic cry for attention, or the best news I've
heard
all
day. Hoping for the latter.

Neither, fjukkwit.

Bertie

awww, sticking up for your boyfriend

at least now we now know which one wears the pants in this
relationship...

Nice try buttboi. don;'t yuo have an airplane to demolish
somewhere?

Bertie

don';t yuo have a 8410 to fraudulently endorse somewhere?

Is there anything you're good at? you sure ain't very good at this.

Bertie

If only the Dud could take you with him...


I hadn't noticed that he's going anywhere.


Bertie.

WingFlaps wrote in
:

On Mar 9, 6:54*pm, "Owner" wrote:
"WJRFlyBoy" wrote in message

...





On Sat, 8 Mar 2008 15:07:56 -0800 (PST), Ken S. Tucker wrote:

On Fri, 7 Mar 2008 22:37:55 -0800 (PST), Ken S. Tucker wrote:
Every pilot is elated to ascend following rotation,
but what should you do if your engine sputters
and quits while climbing at just a few hundred feet.

Off hand I'd suggest pushing the yoke forward to
use decent to prevent stall, because the stall can
happen real fast in that attitude, so be prepared.
((Don't freeze like a deer in head lights)).

Glide back to the runway or have knowledge of a
safe alternative and use it.
Ken

Wow, Ken, even *I* know this is idiotic.

My thoughts a Given no good alternative aside
from the runway, know the x-wind at T-O, do max
ascent into the wind as is normal, then if the engine
quit's (do radio) do a descending gentle 20 into the
x-wind, and come back and set the ship down.
I think the key is max ascent rate, that's insurance.
Ken

Ken, the simple geometries don't work. Regardless of aircraft
characteristics. Are you willing to bet your life on these false
assumptions?
--
Remove numbers for gmail and for God's sake it ain't "gee" either!

No worries, I don't believe anyone has ever been injured or killed
using M
S
Flight Simulator - Hide quoted text -


Not true. There are strong rumours that the personality known as
Anthony A....i died as a results of playing it too much in Paris. His
alter ego, Mxmaniac was injured by trying to simulate a "sexy
manouver". It turned out that a joy stick did not live up to his
expectations.


Seeing as how it;s Anthony, he prolly has a 16 ton weight suspended over
his chair in case he crashes.


Bertie

On 2008-03-09, Roger wrote:
On Sun, 9 Mar 2008 00:43:27 -0800 (PST), WingFlaps
wrote:
Just make sure you have a service contract. I've has two Mac laptop
diplays die in 3 years -never had a similar prob with a PC by the way.
Most disappointing as they are now a really good machine -not as
crippled as a PC by windoze.
That's why I use LINUX on most of the machines:-))

I run Macs for machines that I use to get work done, and Linux for machines
I use to do computing for its own sake. I used to carry a Linux laptop, but
I spent as much time fiddling with the OS as I did getting my real work
accomplished.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
http://www.hercules-390.org (Yes, that's me!)
Buy Hercules stuff at http://www.cafepress.com/hercules-390

On Sat, 8 Mar 2008 19:54:37 -1000, Owner wrote:

On Fri, 7 Mar 2008 22:37:55 -0800 (PST), Ken S. Tucker wrote:
Every pilot is elated to ascend following rotation,
but what should you do if your engine sputters
and quits while climbing at just a few hundred feet.

Off hand I'd suggest pushing the yoke forward to
use decent to prevent stall, because the stall can
happen real fast in that attitude, so be prepared.
((Don't freeze like a deer in head lights)).

Glide back to the runway or have knowledge of a
safe alternative and use it.
Ken

Wow, Ken, even *I* know this is idiotic.

My thoughts a Given no good alternative aside
from the runway, know the x-wind at T-O, do max
ascent into the wind as is normal, then if the engine
quit's (do radio) do a descending gentle 20 into the
x-wind, and come back and set the ship down.
I think the key is max ascent rate, that's insurance.
Ken

Ken, the simple geometries don't work. Regardless of aircraft
characteristics. Are you willing to bet your life on these false
assumptions?
--
Remove numbers for gmail and for God's sake it ain't "gee" either!

No worries, I don't believe anyone has ever been injured or killed using MS
Flight Simulator

I know a guy that nearly poked his eye out with a controller, does that
count?
--
Remove numbers for gmail and for God's sake it ain't "gee" either!

On Mar 10, 2:12*am, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
WingFlaps wrote :





On Mar 9, 6:54*pm, "Owner" wrote:
"WJRFlyBoy" wrote in message

. ..

On Sat, 8 Mar 2008 15:07:56 -0800 (PST), Ken S. Tucker wrote:

On Fri, 7 Mar 2008 22:37:55 -0800 (PST), Ken S. Tucker wrote:
Every pilot is elated to ascend following rotation,
but what should you do if your engine sputters
and quits while climbing at just a few hundred feet.

Off hand I'd suggest pushing the yoke forward to
use decent to prevent stall, because the stall can
happen real fast in that attitude, so be prepared.
((Don't freeze like a deer in head lights)).

Glide back to the runway or have knowledge of a
safe alternative and use it.
Ken

Wow, Ken, even *I* know this is idiotic.

My thoughts a Given no good alternative aside
from the runway, know the x-wind at T-O, do max
ascent into the wind as is normal, then if the engine
quit's (do radio) do a descending gentle 20 into the
x-wind, and come back and set the ship down.
I think the key is max ascent rate, that's insurance.
Ken

Ken, the simple geometries don't work. Regardless of aircraft
characteristics. Are you willing to bet your life on these false
assumptions?
--
Remove numbers for gmail and for God's sake it ain't "gee" either!

No worries, I don't believe anyone has ever been injured or killed
using M
S
Flight Simulator - Hide quoted text -

Not true. There are strong rumours that the personality known as
Anthony A....i died as a results of playing it too much in *Paris. His
alter ego, Mxmaniac was injured by trying to simulate a "sexy
manouver". It turned out that a joy stick did not live up to his
expectations.

Seeing as how it;s Anthony, he prolly has a 16 ton weight suspended over
his chair in case he crashes.


Labelled ACME of course. LOL

Cheers

On Mar 10, 7:54 am, WJRFlyBoy wrote:

I know a guy that nearly poked his eye out with a controller, does that
count?

I bet he was running with it at the time :-)

WingFlaps wrote in
:

On Mar 10, 2:12*am, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
WingFlaps wrote
innews:3ae75984-3a6e-4148-b39c-6360f
:





On Mar 9, 6:54*pm, "Owner" wrote:
"WJRFlyBoy" wrote in message

. ..

On Sat, 8 Mar 2008 15:07:56 -0800 (PST), Ken S. Tucker wrote:

On Fri, 7 Mar 2008 22:37:55 -0800 (PST), Ken S. Tucker wrote:
Every pilot is elated to ascend following rotation,
but what should you do if your engine sputters
and quits while climbing at just a few hundred feet.

Off hand I'd suggest pushing the yoke forward to
use decent to prevent stall, because the stall can
happen real fast in that attitude, so be prepared.
((Don't freeze like a deer in head lights)).

Glide back to the runway or have knowledge of a
safe alternative and use it.
Ken

Wow, Ken, even *I* know this is idiotic.

My thoughts a Given no good alternative aside
from the runway, know the x-wind at T-O, do max
ascent into the wind as is normal, then if the engine
quit's (do radio) do a descending gentle 20 into the
x-wind, and come back and set the ship down.
I think the key is max ascent rate, that's insurance.
Ken

Ken, the simple geometries don't work. Regardless of aircraft
characteristics. Are you willing to bet your life on these false
assumptions?
--
Remove numbers for gmail and for God's sake it ain't "gee"
either!

No worries, I don't believe anyone has ever been injured or killed
using M
S
Flight Simulator - Hide quoted text -

Not true. There are strong rumours that the personality known as
Anthony A....i died as a results of playing it too much in *Paris.
His

alter ego, Mxmaniac was injured by trying to simulate a "sexy
manouver". It turned out that a joy stick did not live up to his
expectations.

Seeing as how it;s Anthony, he prolly has a 16 ton weight suspended
over his chair in case he crashes.


Labelled ACME of course. LOL



Naturellement.

Be

On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 13:44:49 GMT, Jay Maynard
wrote:

On 2008-03-09, Roger wrote:
On Sun, 9 Mar 2008 00:43:27 -0800 (PST), WingFlaps
wrote:
Just make sure you have a service contract. I've has two Mac laptop
diplays die in 3 years -never had a similar prob with a PC by the way.
Most disappointing as they are now a really good machine -not as
crippled as a PC by windoze.
That's why I use LINUX on most of the machines:-))

I run Macs for machines that I use to get work done, and Linux for machines
I use to do computing for its own sake. I used to carry a Linux laptop, but
I spent as much time fiddling with the OS as I did getting my real work
accomplished.
The Macs are a very fine machine. I don't happen to like Apple, but
that's a different story.

As much as I hate to say it, I really don't think LINUX is ready for
prime time...with the exception of pre configured, stand alone
machines where no one changes anything.. The one next to this (Athlon
64X2 6000 and 8800GTS 640 PCIe) has Fedora 8 and XP Pro in a dual boot
configuration. I have another almost identical machine in the shop but
with a Sapphire X1950XT 256 PCIe) but Fedora 8 and XP Pro are on
different boot disks that are selected in the BIOS at boot time.

Once configured they have been very stable, but putting them on a
gigabit CAT5e network and playing with Samba is not for the faint of
heart or the average end user:-)) . One thing I've noted is not
having to clean up gigabytes of disk space after a week or two of use
like I do with XP Pro.

All my mail is now on that machine, but I still need to get the news
reader moved to the LINUX machine.

Except for when I need to switch to XP Pro (such as running FSX) those
machines stay on Fedora. I do need to find a GOOD multimedia package
that will run most of the multimedia stuff out there like an
equivalent to the old Windows Media player Classic I use on XP.

Yes, I have ONE copy of Vista Ultimate (OEM), but only because I
needed to get familiar with it. It is not currently installed and I
see no likelihood of doing so again, at least in the near future. I
have three OEM copies of XP Pro and 2 of XP 64 that came with free
upgrades to Vista. I never bothered to send them in.


Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Steve Hix wrote:
In article ,
Dudley Henriques wrote:

WingFlaps wrote:
On Mar 9, 1:50 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:
Steve Hix wrote:
In article ,
Dudley Henriques wrote:
Dan wrote:
On Mar 8, 11:40 am, Dudley Henriques wrote:
Ken S. Tucker wrote:
On Mar 7, 5:01 pm, wrote:
On Mar 7, 1:02 pm, "Ken S. Tucker" wrote:
Dud, you've never been in an airplane, and you're
NOT an instructor. I'm a prof teacher and I can
sniff your bad **** off the net, you're a phony!
If Dudley or Bertie are frauds, they are very, very good
frauds.
The terminology and all other aspects of their posts regarding
aviation and learning to fly are accurate and perceptive. There
would
be few folks who could come up with this stuff unless they were
savants of some sort. Those of us who actually fly have little
argument with most of what they say.
There are some other posters here who were obvious frauds from
the start. And the more they post, the deeper they dig their holes
of
discredit. They're just incredible.
Anybody can sound good on the net where knowledge
is concerned, but you can't fake an attitude for long.
Pulling mixture or fooling with fuel valves immediately after
takeoff is asking to die. Soon.
No not really, Mr. Buttman is not a suicidal maniac
and one has to presume if the pilot didn't react
properly he take control and have that figured out.
Pulling the throttle has the same
engine-loss effect without the extreme risk associated with killing
the engine. Pulling mixture or fuel also carries
the more remote risk of a control failure, whereby the mixture
control
cable or fuel valve linkage breaks at that exact moment, making a
recovery of the engine impossible.
Sure that can happen. I suppose that's part of the
point of Mr. Buttman's suggested exercise.
In the last 15 years or so we've
had a throttle cable failure and a carb heat cable failure, so now
we
replace all the controls when we replace the engine. There's no
legal
requirement to do it, but after seeing old controls break I decided
that it was going to get done.
Dan
My personal fear is loosing elevator control, it's
very rare, but that Alaska Air crash a few years
back (in the Pacific) was blamed on the screw
that adjusts the elevator getting stripped or jammed.
Ken
The answer to this entire issue is quite easily proved one way or the
other.
Anyone.....and I mean ANYONE, reading about this issue here can easily
pick up the phone and call their local FAA office here in the United
States anyway, and ask for an official opinion on the following
question. (Someone please do this :-)
"Is it acceptable procedure for a flight instructor to turn off a fuel
valve on a student on takeoff causing fuel starvation and subsequent
engine failure as a teaching method"
No flames......no back and forth on who's an idiot or who's a fraud;
no
banter on who's a good instructor and who isn't.....simply get the
official position of the authoritative body officially responsible for
flight instruction and flight safety in the United States.......then
post the answer right here for the world to see.
How fair and up front is that?
--
Dudley Henriques
That's way too easy and implies moments away from the computer.
Are you KIDDING?
Sheese...
Dan
I actually went out this week and bought a new Macbook Air just for
Usenet and email. Wish I'd waited a bit longer though. I'm getting more
disillusioned with Usenet by the minute :-))))
Say...if you decide to give up on usenet for sure, I'll take that
MacBook Air off your hands.
Because I'm all about being helpful. :}
Hey..I LOVE this thing! It's amazing. This is my second Mac. I have an
IMac downstairs that serves as a wireless relay for the Macbook Air with
the laser printer.
I use a high end gaming PC for the flight simulator only. I'll never
again buy a PC for anything but the sim. I'm completely sold on Apple!

--
Dudley Henriques- Hide quoted text -


Just make sure you have a service contract. I've has two Mac laptop
diplays die in 3 years -never had a similar prob with a PC by the way.
Most disappointing as they are now a really good machine -not as
crippled as a PC by windoze.

Cheers

I have the Apple Care Plan. So far no issues.

I always get AppleCare for laptops or my main work machine.

Had cause to use the service, lessee, four times in ten years. Once when
I forgot I'd put my wife's TiBook on the floor to move a printer, and
then kicked and broke the display hinge when I turned around. She
remembers that one for some reason.

The other events were drive failures, one DVD, two hard drives.

They work well for us.
I'll tell you the truth. After 10 years of messing with PC's; having
BIOS updates trash them, and having o deal with Microsoft's absolutely
ridiculous installation policies that take it for granted I'm a software
thief, I'm totally sold on Apple. Haven't had even a minor glitch yet,
and they actually know my name over at the Apple store.
:-))

--
Dudley Henriques

In article ,
Dudley Henriques wrote:

WingFlaps wrote:
On Mar 9, 1:50 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:
Steve Hix wrote:
In article ,
Dudley Henriques wrote:
Dan wrote:
On Mar 8, 11:40 am, Dudley Henriques wrote:
Ken S. Tucker wrote:
On Mar 7, 5:01 pm, wrote:
On Mar 7, 1:02 pm, "Ken S. Tucker" wrote:
Dud, you've never been in an airplane, and you're
NOT an instructor. I'm a prof teacher and I can
sniff your bad **** off the net, you're a phony!
If Dudley or Bertie are frauds, they are very, very good
frauds.
The terminology and all other aspects of their posts regarding
aviation and learning to fly are accurate and perceptive. There
would
be few folks who could come up with this stuff unless they were
savants of some sort. Those of us who actually fly have little
argument with most of what they say.
There are some other posters here who were obvious frauds from
the start. And the more they post, the deeper they dig their holes
of
discredit. They're just incredible.
Anybody can sound good on the net where knowledge
is concerned, but you can't fake an attitude for long.
Pulling mixture or fooling with fuel valves immediately after
takeoff is asking to die. Soon.
No not really, Mr. Buttman is not a suicidal maniac
and one has to presume if the pilot didn't react
properly he take control and have that figured out.
Pulling the throttle has the same
engine-loss effect without the extreme risk associated with killing
the engine. Pulling mixture or fuel also carries
the more remote risk of a control failure, whereby the mixture
control
cable or fuel valve linkage breaks at that exact moment, making a
recovery of the engine impossible.
Sure that can happen. I suppose that's part of the
point of Mr. Buttman's suggested exercise.
In the last 15 years or so we've
had a throttle cable failure and a carb heat cable failure, so now
we
replace all the controls when we replace the engine. There's no
legal
requirement to do it, but after seeing old controls break I decided
that it was going to get done.
Dan
My personal fear is loosing elevator control, it's
very rare, but that Alaska Air crash a few years
back (in the Pacific) was blamed on the screw
that adjusts the elevator getting stripped or jammed.
Ken
The answer to this entire issue is quite easily proved one way or the
other.
Anyone.....and I mean ANYONE, reading about this issue here can easily
pick up the phone and call their local FAA office here in the United
States anyway, and ask for an official opinion on the following
question. (Someone please do this :-)
"Is it acceptable procedure for a flight instructor to turn off a fuel
valve on a student on takeoff causing fuel starvation and subsequent
engine failure as a teaching method"
No flames......no back and forth on who's an idiot or who's a fraud;
no
banter on who's a good instructor and who isn't.....simply get the
official position of the authoritative body officially responsible for
flight instruction and flight safety in the United States.......then
post the answer right here for the world to see.
How fair and up front is that?
--
Dudley Henriques
That's way too easy and implies moments away from the computer.
Are you KIDDING?
Sheese...
Dan
I actually went out this week and bought a new Macbook Air just for
Usenet and email. Wish I'd waited a bit longer though. I'm getting more
disillusioned with Usenet by the minute :-))))
Say...if you decide to give up on usenet for sure, I'll take that
MacBook Air off your hands.
Because I'm all about being helpful. :}
Hey..I LOVE this thing! It's amazing. This is my second Mac. I have an
IMac downstairs that serves as a wireless relay for the Macbook Air with
the laser printer.
I use a high end gaming PC for the flight simulator only. I'll never
again buy a PC for anything but the sim. I'm completely sold on Apple!

--
Dudley Henriques- Hide quoted text -



Just make sure you have a service contract. I've has two Mac laptop
diplays die in 3 years -never had a similar prob with a PC by the way.
Most disappointing as they are now a really good machine -not as
crippled as a PC by windoze.

Cheers

I have the Apple Care Plan. So far no issues.

I always get AppleCare for laptops or my main work machine.

Had cause to use the service, lessee, four times in ten years. Once when
I forgot I'd put my wife's TiBook on the floor to move a printer, and
then kicked and broke the display hinge when I turned around. She
remembers that one for some reason.

The other events were drive failures, one DVD, two hard drives.

They work well for us.