First Glider - No Gelcoat

What about a Club Libelle or even a Std Libelle? Libelles
do have reputation for being somewhat under-air-braked,
but with practice and an awareness of this, there is
no reason why a Libelle would not be a very attractive
first glider.

-It is a design which has stood the test of time
-It is still competitive in regionals and the club
class
-It is probably the most beautiful glider ever built.
Ever
-Decent performance, good enough for 300km, to 500km
on good days
-It is affordable, a good example being between 6,000
and 10,000 British pounds.
-Easy to rig (reportedly one person can lift a Libelle
wing)
-Can take water ballast (some models)
-Will out climb most of the other 'hot ships'

However, if you are of a big build, the cockpit may
be a bit tight as it is rather narrow.

Just an idea anyhow.

Regards,

JR

What about a Club Libelle or even a Std Libelle? Libelles
do have reputation for being somewhat under-air-braked,
but with practice and an awareness of this, there is
no reason why a Libelle would not be a very attractive
first glider.

-It is a design which has stood the test of time
-It is still competitive in regionals and the club
class
-It is probably the most beautiful glider ever built.
Ever
-Decent performance, good enough for 300km, to 500km
on good days
-It is affordable, a good example being between 6,000
and 10,000 British pounds.
-Easy to rig (reportedly one person can lift a Libelle
wing)
-Can take water ballast (some models)
-Will out climb most of the other 'hot ships'

However, if you are of a big build, the cockpit may
be a bit tight as it is rather narrow.

Just an idea anyhow.

Regards,

JR

In article ,
Jono Richards wrote:

What about a Club Libelle or even a Std Libelle? Libelles
do have reputation for being somewhat under-air-braked,
but with practice and an awareness of this, there is
no reason why a Libelle would not be a very attractive
first glider.

The Club Libelle and Std Libelle are very different in this regard.
With the full length trailing edge brakes open I was unable to get the
Club Libelle past 85 knots no matter how far I pushed the nose down.
That's below the rough air speed. The Club Libelle should be able to
survive any kind of turbulence, any kind of upset, pilot disorientation
in cloud etc. Just pull the brakes.


However, if you are of a big build, the cockpit may
be a bit tight as it is rather narrow.

The Club Libelle is roomy. I'm big (1.8m and 120 kg) but the only thing
that is a problem in the Std Libelle is my shoulders. That wouldn't
change even if I lost 30 kg. The cockpit is wide low down, but gets
very narrow at the height of the canopy rails. If I can get down low
enough (e.g. no parachute) then it's ok though not wonderful.

--
Bruce | 41.1670S | \ spoken | -+-
Hoult | 174.8263E | /\ here. | ----------O----------

Great input! Thanks everyone. Some of the comments are as valuable as the
recommendations. I didn't think it was that relevant but I'd be
transitioning from a Grob CS77 with about 100 hrs PIC from 2-33s and 1-26s
up.

I'll try to summarize, in no particular order:
1. Whatever you do, get a good trailer (and a 1-man rigging thingie, if
appropriate).
2. Go for an LS-4 or any more recent German std class plane, don't worry
about gelcoat.
3. Go for the best you can afford and make sure you have a sound transition
plan.
4. Go for a Jantar Std, PIK 20, or Libelle (there are naysayers for each of
these).
5. Don't go for an old open class ship.
6. Get a 1-34, L-33. (These were based on assumptions of lower time, I
think).
6. My personal favourite, don't "dweeb" on the ground over gelcoat, get a
good plane and fly.

Wad.


"Waduino" wrote in message
.. .
Yes I've read lots of posts about buying a first glider. My heart is set
on an LS-4 since I'd like to stay in the roughly $30K US price range with
a decent panel and trailer.

BUT, what if I just don't want gelcoat because sooner or later it will
have to be refinished and that doesn't make any sense economically. Then
what would you recommend? I'd rather buy something I could fly for a few
years and not outgrow too quickly and that has a ready market for resale
should I decide to move up the food chain. BTW I fly in light conditions,
southern Ontario, Canada.

Thanks.
Wad.

At 09:36 10 February 2006, Jono Richards wrote:
-It is probably the most beautiful glider ever built.
Ever

Libelles have held that well-deserved reputation since
the first one flew. But times change... What about
the Sparrowhawk as the new eye-candy champ ?

Ian

Ian Cant wrote:
At 09:36 10 February 2006, Jono Richards wrote:

-It is probably the most beautiful glider ever built.
Ever


Libelles have held that well-deserved reputation since
the first one flew. But times change... What about
the Sparrowhawk as the new eye-candy champ ?

The Mercedes Silver one at the convention was especially gorgeous!

--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State USA

Download "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at
www.motorglider.org

Eric Greenwell wrote:
Ian Cant wrote:

At 09:36 10 February 2006, Jono Richards wrote:

-It is probably the most beautiful glider ever built.
Ever



Libelles have held that well-deserved reputation since
the first one flew. But times change... What about
the Sparrowhawk as the new eye-candy champ ?


The Mercedes Silver one at the convention was especially gorgeous!

A plastic glider painted to look like metal, interesting.
I still vote for the Libelle. Original Discus 2 (before winglets) was
nice too.

Shawn

Shawn wrote:
Eric Greenwell wrote:


Libelles have held that well-deserved reputation since
the first one flew. But times change... What about
the Sparrowhawk as the new eye-candy champ ?



The Mercedes Silver one at the convention was especially gorgeous!

A plastic glider painted to look like metal, interesting.

It did not look like metal, any more than a silver Mercedes looks like
"metal"! A Blanik looks like metal - no one thinks a silver Mercedes has
the same color, which is more of a metallic silver, and definitely not
an aluminum color.

What I find interesting is metal, wood, and hi-temp epoxy gliders (like
the PIK and SparrowHawk) gliders painted white, when they could be
almost any color. White has become associated with high performance over
the decades, and now people prefer that as the "proper" glider color. In
the pre-glass days of wood and metal, gliders were much more colorful.

--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

www.motorglider.org

I won't argue the Sparrowhawk isn't pretty - - it is. However, with those
short wings, it doesn't have the graceful symetry and the sensuousness of
the later Schleicher designs. Yup, I'm biased . . . my ASH26E is gorgeous!

bumper

Reading the waxing romantically posts in this thread...I
can see how these inanimate objects have become know
as our fiberglass mistresses