I had 2 DUI's about 6 years ago, is it realistic for me to become a commercial pilot?

Mxsmanic wrote:
writes:

I had 2 Dui's (one when I was 21 and one when I was 22) and I'm now
almost 28. I was working on a degree in communications and I'm at
about the junior level, but my old dream of flying just came back to
me all of the sudden and I thought I would make absolutely sure if
those DUI's will be more than just an obstacle for me.

The important question is: Do you still drink?

Nope.

What would be an important question for a whole other discussion is:
Do you now drink responsibly or are you still acting like a kid?

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

"Big John" wrote in message
...
Jarrod

Check your State laws. Some States keep your DUI record forever I'm
told.

Other States wash your record out after a period of time, 5 years, 10
years or some such.

If your State gives you a clean record then should not be a problem
with FAA even if they have some rules about multiple DUI's????

Unless you are willing to lie on your FAA Form 8500-8, your state's records
don't matter. The question is very plain:" History of (1) any conviction
involving driving while intoxicated..."

They mean just that..."any". You are not allowed to leave anything out.

On Jul 5, 6:23 pm, "Vaughn Simon"
wrote:

Unless you are willing to lie on your FAA Form 8500-8, your state's records
don't matter. The question is very plain:" History of (1) any conviction
involving driving while intoxicated..."

They mean just that..."any". You are not allowed to leave anything out.

....unless your record was expunged.

If it got erased from your record, it never happened. Thats the whole
point of going through the trouble of getting your record erased.

On Jul 5, 8:44 pm, buttman wrote:
On Jul 5, 6:23 pm, "Vaughn Simon"
wrote:



Unless you are willing to lie on your FAA Form 8500-8, your state's records
don't matter. The question is very plain:" History of (1) any conviction
involving driving while intoxicated..."

They mean just that..."any". You are not allowed to leave anything out.

...unless your record was expunged.

If it got erased from your record, it never happened. Thats the whole
point of going through the trouble of getting your record erased.


No...not so much. The FAA is fairly clear on this. If you have a DWI
no matter what has happened to it in the past you need to tell them
that this has happened....you can explain it as it has been expunged
etc.

But you will risk airman certificate action if they find out
independtly that you have had a DWI and did not inform them. Those
words were chosen very carefully for that.

Call up any FSDO and ask that question and you will I believe get that
response.

I know of at least two airline pilots who are doing something else
because they lost their certificates in just such a manner.

In both cases while the state in question had expunged the conviction
because of "time"...other evidence was developed in a legal manner by
federal law enforcement officers which pointed to a DWI and the FAA
did not hesitate in initiating certificate action.

Robert

$39 is a lot of money???? The magazine is worth it if you are interested in
airplanes, whether or not you decide to get your license.

The question is not just whether you can get a commercial or ATP license,
but more importantly, will anyone hire you with this kind of history. The
FAA can't tell you that. AOPA might give you some idea. I suspect that a
career guidance office at a reputable school that trains professional pilots
(Embree Riddle, Purdue, UND, etc.....) would be an even better source for
this kind of information.

Mike Schumann

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com wrote in message
...
tony roberts wrote:
Any help, advice, or experience is really appreciated. Feel free to
email me!

If you join AOPA they will advise you on this or will point you to the
people who can.


I like Hawkeye's answer better. Calling the FAA is free. AOPA is an
excellent choice for those who are actually flying, but I wouldn't join
unless I was pretty sure I was going to fly. What if they say nobody has
ever done it? That's a lot of money for a membership that may not be
useable.

I see this from two sides: 1) two DUIs are unexcusable. People who drink
and drive and then drink and drive again are bound to do it yet again. I
don't want to share the sky with such a person.

2) OTOH, we all do stupid things when we're young. The only difference
between Tony and myself is that he got caught. And knowing that, I also
know mistakes made at an early age don't have to be repeated. I stopped
drinking and driving when I was in my early 20s and in fact seldom drink
at all today. People can change.

So it's a crapshoot. I don't know how the FAA is going to look at this
but I'd be inclined to forget his youthful indiscretions. One other DUI
though... and it's out on his ass. But that's just my opinion.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com





--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

On Jul 4, 6:31 pm, wrote:
I had 2 Dui's (one when I was 21 and one when I was 22) and I'm now
almost 28. I was working on a degree in communications and I'm at
about the junior level, but my old dream of flying just came back to
me all of the sudden and I thought I would make absolutely sure if
those DUI's will be more than just an obstacle for me.

Where I am at now is just trying to figure out how I can be sure one
way or another. How do I get the official thumbs up or down? I can't
bring myself to invest all that money only to be unsure and have to
wait until I get further down the road and committed to find out.


Jarrod,
I was going to email you but I thought I would post here in case
anyone else might be interested. You have two separate issues here,
The FAA and your future employer. I will start with the employer. I
have been flying the line for nearly 20 years, first at a regional and
then a major airline, and I have heard this question and others like
it many times. I also want to say that there have been some exellent
responses from others on this thread, and I dont want to undo anything
that they have said, but I hope my observations will be helpful.
The airline I currently work for has a high regard for employee
references. They solicit references from us all the time, and in so
doing they have fielded questions about what would help (Or hinder) a
candidate. As you can imagine, the subject of driving records and
criminal history has come up. For liability reasons, the company has
had to play this one pretty close to the vest. So if you get an answer
from AOPA or JetJobs or whoever, it is probably not going to be very
accurate. In fact, I have read more bull**** in JetJobs (And others
companies like them) about my own airline than you can imagine. This
being said, my company has hired pilots with criminal backrounds, but
(They stress this) it is done on a case by case basis. One thing I can
tell you for sure is that you will improve your odds by staying out of
trouble since these convictions. The longer you show a clean record,
the better. Whatever you do, dont lie on your application. This is a
sure fire way to get fired. Some airlines have made this easy by
asking a time limited question ie; " Have you been convicted in the
past 7 years". Unfortunatly for some mine doesnt do that. You may wish
to check with a prospective employer on this.
As for the FAA, I think this question was answered very well (You have
to disclose), but check with an aviation attorney on this just to be
sure. In fact, do not rely on any legal advise you get on this forum,
always back it up with an attorney.
KB

Jarrod

Richard Riley wrote:
On Thu, 05 Jul 2007 20:29:19 -0700, Luke Skywalker
wrote:

I know of at least two airline pilots who are doing something else
because they lost their certificates in just such a manner.

In both cases while the state in question had expunged the conviction
because of "time"...other evidence was developed in a legal manner by
federal law enforcement officers which pointed to a DWI and the FAA
did not hesitate in initiating certificate action.


http://www.bootsnall.com/guides/05-10/drunk-pilots.html


Epilogue:

Among the most inspirational stories out there is that of Northwest
Airlines captain Lyle Prouse, one of the trio arrested that morning in
Minneapolis in 1990. Prouse, an alcoholic whose parents had died of
the disease, became a poster pilot of punishment and redemption. He
was given 16 months in federal prison for flying drunk, and then, in a
remarkable and improbable sequence of events, was able to return to
the cockpit on his 60th birthday and retire as a 747 captain. Once out
of jail, Prouse was forced to requalify for every one of his FAA
licenses and ratings. Broke, he relied on a friend to lend him stick
time in a single-engine trainer. Northwest's then-CEO John Dasburg,
who himself had grown up in an alcoholic family, took personal
interest in Prouse's struggle and lobbied publicly for his return.

You'll see Prouse in TV interviews time to time, and inevitably you're
struck by how forthrightly he takes responsibility, without resorting
to the sobby self-flagellation of most public apologies. Always one is
left, unexpectedly, to conclude this convicted felon deserved, and
got, a second chance. I'd never have believed it myself until watching
a network special about Prouse a few years ago.

In 2001 Lyle Prouse was among those granted Presidential pardons by
Bill Clinton.


Much of Lyle's story can be read on the pprune forum. He
starts at post #52 in the attached link. An amazing man
and story.

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...=256861&page=3

There are two answers, one trivially easy and the other a bit more
complicated.

One, spend $100 and go to your local aviation medical examiner (the local
FAA Flight Standards District Office has a list) and take the medical exam.
List the DUIs as required by the form. If the FAA gives you your medical,
no problem. If it wants more data, then you go the "how do I get out of
this box" answers.

Two, some aviation jobs will check you back to the day you arrived slimy wet
in the hospital. Others will take you if you appear to be warm and
breathing. Nobody can give you the answer to this.

Jim

--
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in
a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, with chocolate in one hand and wine in
the other, loudly proclaiming 'WOO HOO What a Ride!'"
--Unknown

wrote in message
oups.com...
I had 2 Dui's (one when I was 21 and one when I was 22) and I'm now
almost 28. I was working on a degree in communications and I'm at
about the junior level, but my old dream of flying just came back to
me all of the sudden and I thought I would make absolutely sure if
those DUI's will be more than just an obstacle for me.

El Maximo writes:

Actually, that question is completely irrelevant to the question posed.

No, it is not. The FAA is concerned about pilots who fly while drunk; it
doesn't care how many times they've been drunk in the past while not flying.
Their concern with DUI is to try to predict who is likely to become drunk
before flying today, not in the past. Since they cannot check every pilot
before every flight, they try to predict and move proactively.

If this prospective pilot no longer drinks, he should do what is necessary to
prove that to the FAA so that he can get his medical. If he still drinks, he
should think twice. Generally, one DUI is an extremely bad sign, and two
should logically be a showstopper, but there are exceptions to every rule (and
there are pilots who get drunk and kill themselves and others).

Paul Tomblin writes:

A person who didn't learn from the first DUI is either an idiot or an
alcoholic. Now maybe he was just an idiot and grew out of it, or maybe
he's a borderline alcoholic who is likely to drink and drive (or fly)
again. Personally, I would want to see evidence that he doesn't drink
enough to get drunk regularly.

Exactly. One DUI is strong evidence of alcoholism; two DUIs is virtually
proof of it. So the question is whether or not this person still drinks. If
he still drinks at all, he needs to stay on the ground.