Bonehead move today

How will filing an ASRS promote safety? Have you or anyone else read these
files and learned from the experience of others? Are they even available to
the public?

As stated in the original post, there was clear visibility from one end of
the runway to the other- one pilot didn't make radio calls, while the other
departed without looking. There were no physical limitations in visibility
from one end of the runway (including nearly 1000 feet of over run where we
were parked) to the other.

Do you think the FSDO will somehow take the information from an ASRS and use
it to investigate the circumstances or look at safety conditions at the
airport? If the involved pilots were so oblivious do you think they would
make an effort to improve their flying by filing the form?

In the abstract the ASRS may be beneficial, but from a practical perspective
in this scenario would have little to offer.

Viperdoc wrote:

How will filing an ASRS promote safety? Have you or anyone else read these
files and learned from the experience of others? Are they even available to
the public?

http://tinyurl.com/bmth3

--
Peter

Viperdoc wrote:
How will filing an ASRS promote safety? Have you or anyone else read these
files and learned from the experience of others? Are they even available to
the public?

Doc, you need to read more! ASRS puts out a monthly newsletter (it's
free!), CALLBACK, that chronicals notable experiences by submitters of
NASA Form 277B (the reporting form). I have every issue that was ever
published (goes back about 30 years or so). They are also available online.

http://asrs.arc.nasa.gov/

As stated in the original post, there was clear visibility from one end of
the runway to the other- one pilot didn't make radio calls, while the other
departed without looking. There were no physical limitations in visibility
from one end of the runway (including nearly 1000 feet of over run where we
were parked) to the other.

Broaden your scope of thought the way these pilots should have broadened
their vision of their environment. Perhaps other incidents have occurred
at other airports under similar conditions. The analysts at ASRS may
find a common thread based on dissparate reports and determine a solution.

Do you think the FSDO will somehow take the information from an ASRS and use
it to investigate the circumstances or look at safety conditions at the
airport? If the involved pilots were so oblivious do you think they would
make an effort to improve their flying by filing the form?

That's not how the system works.

In the abstract the ASRS may be beneficial, but from a practical perspective
in this scenario would have little to offer.

Again, look at the big picture, not the the view through the pinhole.

Jay Honeck wrote:
Pilots aren't obligated by FAR to breathe, either -- but it's highly
recommended.

well, there are a thing or two about being physically fit
(14 CFR 67) and I am pretty sure that being alive is implied
even for sport pilots :-)

--Sylvain

Nope don't even have a pulse!!!!

Patrick
student SPL
aircraft structural mech

"Sylvain" wrote in message
...
Jay Honeck wrote:
Pilots aren't obligated by FAR to breathe, either -- but it's highly
recommended.

well, there are a thing or two about being physically fit
(14 CFR 67) and I am pretty sure that being alive is implied
even for sport pilots :-)

--Sylvain

I agree completely with the premise that collection of data can lead to
improved safety- this is one of the basic tenets of my job as a flight
surgeon.

However, I also had the the very real experience of nearly seeing two planes
collide and crash. In my civilian job as a surgeon at a level I trauma
center I see people on a near daily basis whose lives are irretrievably
changed through acts of stupidity or carelessness- the elderly lady shot
inadvertantly in a drive by shooting, or the family wiped out by a drunk
driver.

These things are very real, as was the near miss we saw the other day.
Filling out NASA forms is a voluntary process, and may be beneficial in the
abstract. Unless the data is utilized in some meaningful fashion, however,
it will have little benefit to the general flying public.

Most pilots would probably agree that they should self announce their
position and intent at uncontrolled airfields, as is recommended in the AIM,
and most would agree that it would be unwise to depart directly toward an
oncoming 210. Yet, both of these occurred.

Would filling out these forms help counsel these pilots in better operations
at uncontrolled fields? How many pilots read the ASRS reports? Why don't the
big magazines such as AOPA Pilot, Flying, etc summarize them on a regular
basis to help the rest of us? While they may be an undertilized safety
resource, I suspect the forms are of little practical utility since their
submission is voluntary, and frequently used as the "get out of jail free"
card to avoid enforcement action.

Viperdoc wrote:

While neither pilot had any obligation to announce, if I had been in the 210
and somebody made a radio call saying they were departing off of the same
runway in the opposite direction it probably would have gotten my attention.



That's right, pilots aren't obligated to be smart. Fortunately, most of
us are, but there are a few really stupid ones out there that don't self
announce at uncontrolled fields. The sad part is that occasionally the
stupid pilots take down a smart pilot with them. Luckily, not in this case.


Matt

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
news
Viperdoc wrote:

While neither pilot had any obligation to announce, if I had been in the
210
and somebody made a radio call saying they were departing off of the
same
runway in the opposite direction it probably would have gotten my
attention.



That's right, pilots aren't obligated to be smart. Fortunately, most of
us are, but there are a few really stupid ones out there that don't self
announce at uncontrolled fields. The sad part is that occasionally the
stupid pilots take down a smart pilot with them. Luckily, not in this
case.


Matt

Let's not forget the really, really stupid ones that yack on the radio but
don't know what the windows on their airplanes are for. Give me a stupid
one looking out the window over a smart one yacking but not looking any day.

Dave Stadt wrote:

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
news
Viperdoc wrote:


While neither pilot had any obligation to announce, if I had been in the

210

and somebody made a radio call saying they were departing off of the

same

runway in the opposite direction it probably would have gotten my

attention.


That's right, pilots aren't obligated to be smart. Fortunately, most of
us are, but there are a few really stupid ones out there that don't self
announce at uncontrolled fields. The sad part is that occasionally the
stupid pilots take down a smart pilot with them. Luckily, not in this

case.


Matt


Let's not forget the really, really stupid ones that yack on the radio but
don't know what the windows on their airplanes are for. Give me a stupid
one looking out the window over a smart one yacking but not looking any day.

Yes, that is equally stupid. No reason not to do both, assuming you
have a radio. If you don't, then I'll accept that as an excuse! :-)

Matt

Viperdoc wrote:
Would filling out these forms help counsel these pilots in better operations
at uncontrolled fields? How many pilots read the ASRS reports? Why don't the
big magazines such as AOPA Pilot, Flying, etc summarize them on a regular
basis to help the rest of us? While they may be an undertilized safety
resource, I suspect the forms are of little practical utility since their
submission is voluntary, and frequently used as the "get out of jail free"
card to avoid enforcement action.

According to the ASRS website, there are 85k subscribers to CALLBACK.
Compare that to 610k pilots in the US, yielding 17% readers.
FLYING magazine does use the reports. Peter Garrison writes two columns,
one on aviation technology, the other on accident analysis. Richard
Collins also often cites ASRS data and compares it to AOPA's Aviation
Safety organizations numbers.
Quite the contrary, I believe. It does depend on the situation reported,
but the researchers may go into great depth of study to analyze the
information gleaned not only from the original report but also followup
telephone calls and other correspondence.