The ravages of time?

noel.wade wrote:
On Jun 18, 11:14 am, Greg Arnold wrote:

838 km at 117 km/hr in a classic Standard Cirrus. Of course, Thorsten
is a good pilot -- he is achieving most of that 50% difference due to
skill level.

As a side-note:

While I have the utmost respect for Thorsten, I *hate* these kinds of
comments!

In good lift with high bases, everyone can go faster and further.
Claiming statistics from a single flight doesn't necessarily tell you
about the glider's limits - it just tells you what the glider and
pilot are capable of under a specific set of conditions in a specific
area.

Even with a fantastic pilot, a Std Cirrus in my local area is _not_
going to be capable of going 838km. And the added legs or lower sink-
rate of some newer gliders will make a marked performance difference
under most conditions (i.e. think what Thorsten could have done on
that day with an LS-8 or ASW-28 or Discus 2!!).

It is hard to argue with you, since you keep shifting the goal posts.
And do you notice that the other gliders you cite lack flaps?


Simply claiming a distance and speed means nothing, unless you're
doing a true apples-to-apples comparison between gliders on the same
day in the same area. That's why most competitions are held over
multiple days from the same airfield...

Yes, and compare Thorsten's performance with that of the other flights
at Parowan yesterday. Pretty good in comparison to the flapped ships,
don't you think?

The point is that it is pilot skill, not flaps, that is the relevant factor.



Still pretty damn impressive what T did with that Std Cirrus!

Take care,

--Noel

On Jun 18, 1:54*pm, Greg Arnold wrote:

It is hard to argue with you, since you keep shifting the goal posts.
And do you notice that the other gliders you cite lack flaps?

I cited unflapped gliders because the Std Cirrus is unflapped. I was
trying to do a direct comparison between aircraft in the same class,
since newer std-class gliders have flatter polars and higher max L/Ds
than the Std Cirrus.

I'm not moving the goal-posts, its just a complicated set of goals.
Like aircraft themselves, any solution will be a compromise.

That's why I settled on the DG-300 - it fits a combination of my
safety & ergonomic needs, flying style, local weather, intended usage,
performance minimums, and personal goals. Now I just hope that I
don't find it "boring" to fly after a few years... :-)

Yes, and compare Thorsten's performance with that of the other flights
at Parowan yesterday. *Pretty good in comparison to the flapped ships,
don't you think?

The point is that it is pilot skill, not flaps, that is the relevant factor.

OK, point taken. I didn't look up the other OLC flights for that day
- I'll have to do so!

Take care,

--Noel

noel.wade wrote:



Yeah - sucks to be me, eh?

Honestly, I wouldn't buy one of those big-span gliders even if I had
the money - they make it too easy! Don't like the lift? Simply level
out and fly to the next state (or country, if you're in
Europe)... ;-)

--Noel
(Who would have loved to put his money where his mouth is by competing
in the Region 8 contest next week; but couldn't get the time off work
- argh!)

You could always quit your job

On Jun 18, 1:43 pm, "noel.wade" wrote:
On Jun 18, 11:14 am, Greg Arnold wrote:

838 km at 117 km/hr in a classic Standard Cirrus. Of course, Thorsten
is a good pilot -- he is achieving most of that 50% difference due to
skill level.

As a side-note:

While I have the utmost respect for Thorsten, I *hate* these kinds of
comments!
snip...
(i.e. think what Thorsten could have done on
that day with an LS-8 or ASW-28 or Discus 2!!).


Take care,

--Noel

He could have done another 150k or so. The same day, two motorized,
flapped ships did 1000k. Consider that Thorsten was back 1.5 hours
before another 1000k pilot who landed at sunset and had a higher
average speed than both. Fantastic!

I think you need to take an intermediary step before you buy the "end-
all" ship. You priorities may change a lot in the next five-ten years
and you may want say, a self-launcher, for example. In any case, I was
advised by many to buy the best condition my budget could afford. So I
passed on the 40:1 newer ship in fair shape in favor of the 38:1 in
far better condition.

/Adam

On Wed, 18 Jun 2008 15:25:12 -0700 (PDT), "noel.wade"
wrote:


That's why I settled on the DG-300 - it fits a combination of my
safety & ergonomic needs, flying style, local weather, intended usage,
performance minimums, and personal goals. Now I just hope that I
don't find it "boring" to fly after a few years... :-)

Once again, I don't want to disappoint you, but my club's students
find the DG-300 extremely boring after about two years and look
forward to fly the ASW-24... which they find boring again after at
maximum another two years when they are allowed to fly the ASW-27...



Bye
Andreas

That's the call of the siren.

At 11:37 19 June 2008, Andreas Maurer wrote:
On Wed, 18 Jun 2008 15:25:12 -0700 (PDT), "noel.wade"
wrote:


That's why I settled on the DG-300 - it fits a combination of my
safety & ergonomic needs, flying style, local weather, intended usage,
performance minimums, and personal goals. Now I just hope that I
don't find it "boring" to fly after a few years... :-)

Once again, I don't want to disappoint you, but my club's students
find the DG-300 extremely boring after about two years and look
forward to fly the ASW-24... which they find boring again after at
maximum another two years when they are allowed to fly the ASW-27...



Bye
Andreas

Funny - I was completely happy with my Std Cirrus for 5 years.
Still find it challenging. sometimes I manage to beat 100km/h or do 300km and the reward is great.
On the same day the higher performance types are sometimes doing greater distances, but not always.

Then the dark side started on me...
In my case there are two kids who are keen - so gliding can become a family thing. 20m of two seater on order.

To parody mastercard - the cost is considerable - the experiences priceless.

Bruce

Nyal Williams wrote:
That's the call of the siren.

At 11:37 19 June 2008, Andreas Maurer wrote:
On Wed, 18 Jun 2008 15:25:12 -0700 (PDT), "noel.wade"
wrote:


That's why I settled on the DG-300 - it fits a combination of my
safety & ergonomic needs, flying style, local weather, intended usage,
performance minimums, and personal goals. Now I just hope that I
don't find it "boring" to fly after a few years... :-)
Once again, I don't want to disappoint you, but my club's students
find the DG-300 extremely boring after about two years and look
forward to fly the ASW-24... which they find boring again after at
maximum another two years when they are allowed to fly the ASW-27...



Bye
Andreas

Noel,

My prediction is that you will love the DG 300.

I hope to see you at the Region 8 contest next year.

I will be happy to try to keep up with you in my HP16T. I can
occasionally keep up with SN when he is having a particularly bad day.

Brian

my 2 cents:

buy the cheapest glider you can afford
spend the leftover money on gas for retrieves
have fun FLYING!

On Jun 19, 7:37*am, Andreas Maurer wrote:
On Wed, 18 Jun 2008 15:25:12 -0700 (PDT), "noel.wade"

wrote:
That's why I settled on the DG-300 - it fits a combination of my
safety & ergonomic needs, flying style, local weather, intended usage,
performance minimums, and personal goals. *Now I just hope that I
don't find it "boring" to fly after a few years... :-)

Once again, I don't want to disappoint you, but my club's students
find the DG-300 extremely boring after about two years and look
forward to fly the ASW-24... which they find boring again after at
maximum another two years when they are allowed to fly the ASW-27...


Bye
Andreas

I came back to Standard Class after 13 years in 15 Meter and have
never been bored in the ASW 24 (sorry, Andreas!). Not much difference
in the Eastern US most of the time. In strong conditions, I see as
much difference due to wingloading (newer ships in both classes can
get heavier) as to flaps. Biggest reason to go with flaps is easier
landing in short fields. But with the '24, I've flown as Standard,
Sports, 15M, and even Open Class. The latter was at Hobbs: on the
strong days, I could stay with the big ships due to turning tighter
and having higher wingloading. But when it got weak or a blue hole
opened up (as always seemed to happen), it got ugly: there's no
substitute for span. I'm sure you'll like the DG 300 whether for a
few years or long term, depending on what you want to do/accomplish in
soaring. There's always something else to buy, but for most of us
there's always much more to learn.

Chip Bearden
ASW 24 "JB"
USA