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#1
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Like many clubs mine blows hot and cold on using launchpoint logging
software. At present we have a legacy system handling flight recording from paper records taken at the launch point with a link to our accounting system which was written by a club member who left some time ago and the system should probably be overhauled/replaced regardless of adding a launchpoint bit. While it does tick the simple easy to use box I suspect that savings could be made in terms of staff time entering the data later. I suspect that many other clubs are in a similar position or are paying for the software. I would like to explore the possibility of a collaborative venture making the end result open source which will hopefully ensure that the support continues into the future and the package moves forward Would anyone who is interested in participating please contact me on the email address below. Would also be interested to hear from anyone who has a good robust system and is willing to donate it to the community as a starting point. A critical mass of at least 5-6 clubs and 4+ developers is probably required - location is not seen as an issue and it should be easy enough to make the software multilingual. I would also like to hear of other clubs experiences using launchpoint logging systems with respect to reliability, redundancy, ease of use etc etc. rgds Stephen sjhcon_at_gmail.com |
#2
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On Nov 26, 5:05*pm, stevehaley wrote:
Like many clubs mine blows hot and cold on using launchpoint logging software. At present we have a legacy system handling flight recording from paper records taken at the launch point with a link to our accounting system which was written by a club member who left some time ago and the system should probably be overhauled/replaced regardless of adding a launchpoint bit. While it does tick the simple easy to use box I suspect that savings could be made in terms of staff time entering the data later. I suspect that many other clubs are in a similar position or are paying for the software. I would like to explore the possibility of a collaborative venture making the end result open source which will hopefully ensure that the support continues into the future and the package moves forward Would anyone who is interested in participating please contact me on the email address below. Would also be interested to hear from anyone who has a good robust system and is willing to donate it to the community as a starting point. A critical mass of at least 5-6 clubs and 4+ developers is probably required - location is not seen as an issue and it should be easy enough to make the software multilingual. I would also like to hear of other clubs experiences using launchpoint logging systems with respect to reliability, redundancy, ease of use etc etc. rgds Stephen sjhcon_at_gmail.com Good idea. It strikes me that if both gliders and tugs carried GPS loggers, all flight data could be automatically captured except for matching flights to member names which should be fairly easy to do manually. Tows would be matched to glider flights since the logs are time stamped. A tow starting at exactly the same time as a glider flight would link them together. A software package that created a daily screen from the logs data where pilot names could be entered manually would make billing easier - and a lot more accurate. |
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On Nov 27, 5:50*am, bildan wrote:
On Nov 26, 5:05*pm, stevehaley wrote: Like many clubs mine blows hot and cold on using launchpoint logging software. At present we have a legacy system handling flight recording from paper records taken at the launch point with a link to our accounting system which was written by a club member who left some time ago and the system should probably be overhauled/replaced regardless of adding a launchpoint bit. While it does tick the simple easy to use box I suspect that savings could be made in terms of staff time entering the data later. I suspect that many other clubs are in a similar position or are paying for the software. I would like to explore the possibility of a collaborative venture making the end result open source which will hopefully ensure that the support continues into the future and the package moves forward Would anyone who is interested in participating please contact me on the email address below. Would also be interested to hear from anyone who has a good robust system and is willing to donate it to the community as a starting point. A critical mass of at least 5-6 clubs and 4+ developers is probably required - location is not seen as an issue and it should be easy enough to make the software multilingual. I would also like to hear of other clubs experiences using launchpoint logging systems with respect to reliability, redundancy, ease of use etc etc. rgds Stephen sjhcon_at_gmail.com Good idea. It strikes me that if both gliders and tugs carried GPS loggers, all flight data could be automatically captured except for matching flights to member names which should be fairly easy to do manually. Tows would be matched to glider flights since the logs are time stamped. *A tow starting at exactly the same time as a glider flight would link them together. A software package that created a daily screen from the logs data where pilot names could be entered manually would make billing easier - and a lot more accurate. Stephen, You may like the look of the software for gliding clubs described at the following page. http://datamodus.net/Index.htm My club looked at it several years ago. We didn't go ahead (& still use pen and paper), so no guarantees, but at least the supplier seemed genuine. Ian Grant ian dot grant12 at gmail,com |
#4
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The manual operations required to download gps files from all the aircraft,
loading into a computer and adding pilot billing accounts would take more time than transferring a manual log to a spreadsheet. The trick is to get the spreadsheet data into the accounting and billing system. "bildan" wrote in message ... On Nov 26, 5:05 pm, stevehaley wrote: Like many clubs mine blows hot and cold on using launchpoint logging software. At present we have a legacy system handling flight recording from paper records taken at the launch point with a link to our accounting system which was written by a club member who left some time ago and the system should probably be overhauled/replaced regardless of adding a launchpoint bit. While it does tick the simple easy to use box I suspect that savings could be made in terms of staff time entering the data later. I suspect that many other clubs are in a similar position or are paying for the software. I would like to explore the possibility of a collaborative venture making the end result open source which will hopefully ensure that the support continues into the future and the package moves forward Would anyone who is interested in participating please contact me on the email address below. Would also be interested to hear from anyone who has a good robust system and is willing to donate it to the community as a starting point. A critical mass of at least 5-6 clubs and 4+ developers is probably required - location is not seen as an issue and it should be easy enough to make the software multilingual. I would also like to hear of other clubs experiences using launchpoint logging systems with respect to reliability, redundancy, ease of use etc etc. rgds Stephen sjhcon_at_gmail.com Good idea. It strikes me that if both gliders and tugs carried GPS loggers, all flight data could be automatically captured except for matching flights to member names which should be fairly easy to do manually. Tows would be matched to glider flights since the logs are time stamped. A tow starting at exactly the same time as a glider flight would link them together. A software package that created a daily screen from the logs data where pilot names could be entered manually would make billing easier - and a lot more accurate. |
#5
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The manual operations required to download gps files from all the aircraft,
loading into a computer and adding pilot billing accounts would take more time than transferring a manual log to a spreadsheet. The trick is to get the spreadsheet data into the accounting and billing system. "bildan" wrote in message ... On Nov 26, 5:05 pm, stevehaley wrote: Like many clubs mine blows hot and cold on using launchpoint logging software. At present we have a legacy system handling flight recording from paper records taken at the launch point with a link to our accounting system which was written by a club member who left some time ago and the system should probably be overhauled/replaced regardless of adding a launchpoint bit. While it does tick the simple easy to use box I suspect that savings could be made in terms of staff time entering the data later. I suspect that many other clubs are in a similar position or are paying for the software. I would like to explore the possibility of a collaborative venture making the end result open source which will hopefully ensure that the support continues into the future and the package moves forward Would anyone who is interested in participating please contact me on the email address below. Would also be interested to hear from anyone who has a good robust system and is willing to donate it to the community as a starting point. A critical mass of at least 5-6 clubs and 4+ developers is probably required - location is not seen as an issue and it should be easy enough to make the software multilingual. I would also like to hear of other clubs experiences using launchpoint logging systems with respect to reliability, redundancy, ease of use etc etc. rgds Stephen sjhcon_at_gmail.com Good idea. It strikes me that if both gliders and tugs carried GPS loggers, all flight data could be automatically captured except for matching flights to member names which should be fairly easy to do manually. Tows would be matched to glider flights since the logs are time stamped. A tow starting at exactly the same time as a glider flight would link them together. A software package that created a daily screen from the logs data where pilot names could be entered manually would make billing easier - and a lot more accurate. |
#6
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On Nov 26, 6:32*pm, "BT" wrote:
The manual operations required to download gps files from all the aircraft, loading into a computer and adding pilot billing accounts would take more time than transferring a manual log to a spreadsheet. The trick is to get the spreadsheet data into the accounting and billing system. "bildan" wrote in message ... On Nov 26, 5:05 pm, stevehaley wrote: Like many clubs mine blows hot and cold on using launchpoint logging software. At present we have a legacy system handling flight recording from paper records taken at the launch point with a link to our accounting system which was written by a club member who left some time ago and the system should probably be overhauled/replaced regardless of adding a launchpoint bit. While it does tick the simple easy to use box I suspect that savings could be made in terms of staff time entering the data later. I suspect that many other clubs are in a similar position or are paying for the software. I would like to explore the possibility of a collaborative venture making the end result open source which will hopefully ensure that the support continues into the future and the package moves forward Would anyone who is interested in participating please contact me on the email address below. Would also be interested to hear from anyone who has a good robust system and is willing to donate it to the community as a starting point. A critical mass of at least 5-6 clubs and 4+ developers is probably required - location is not seen as an issue and it should be easy enough to make the software multilingual. I would also like to hear of other clubs experiences using launchpoint logging systems with respect to reliability, redundancy, ease of use etc etc. rgds Stephen sjhcon_at_gmail.com Good idea. It strikes me that if both gliders and tugs carried GPS loggers, all flight data could be automatically captured except for matching flights to member names which should be fairly easy to do manually. Tows would be matched to glider flights since the logs are time stamped. *A tow starting at exactly the same time as a glider flight would link them together. A software package that created a daily screen from the logs data where pilot names could be entered manually would make billing easier - and a lot more accurate. Partly true. It only works for the towed pilots who give you a log file - absent that you have a mixed system of computer and manual matching, which of course means that the tow pilots or ops director need some sort of hand-written record. 9B |
#7
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On Nov 26, 7:05*pm, stevehaley wrote:
Like many clubs mine blows hot and cold on using launchpoint logging software. At present we have a legacy system handling flight recording from paper records taken at the launch point with a link to our accounting system which was written by a club member who left some time ago and the system should probably be overhauled/replaced regardless of adding a launchpoint bit. While it does tick the simple easy to use box I suspect that savings could be made in terms of staff time entering the data later. I suspect that many other clubs are in a similar position or are paying for the software. I would like to explore the possibility of a collaborative venture making the end result open source which will hopefully ensure that the support continues into the future and the package moves forward Would anyone who is interested in participating please contact me on the email address below. Would also be interested to hear from anyone who has a good robust system and is willing to donate it to the community as a starting point. A critical mass of at least 5-6 clubs and 4+ developers is probably required - location is not seen as an issue and it should be easy enough to make the software multilingual. I would also like to hear of other clubs experiences using launchpoint logging systems with respect to reliability, redundancy, ease of use etc etc. rgds Stephen sjhcon_at_gmail.com Do consider practical issues such as: - you can't see most computer screens outdoors - power will be needed near launch point - computaphobes in club - affect of rain on komputers - komputers often break - ease of info transfer from field to wherever billing is done Keep a paper backup in any case ! From a guy who specializes in practical solutions ;-) See ya, Dave |
#8
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We had a computer system running at our club about 8 years ago, but
have gone back to a paper system with the data entered into the accounting system at a later time. The intent of the computer system was to save the time punching in all the flight data. As it turns out, it didn't actually make much difference in time-savings over the course of a year. Some of the problems are much as Dave mentions above, such as a power source at the launch point and computaphobes. Other problems included: 1. The issue of small mid-week operation not taking the computer to the launch point to enter the flights (too much effort for just a couple of flights) and then someone else having to enter all the mid- week flights before the Saturday morning operation could start. 2. Entering new members into the system at the launch point - the member database was not easily updated on the fly. 3. Errors entered into the launch point computer are transmitted directly into the billing system. If there is no paper trail, these can be difficult to correct. With the paper system, one person in a quiet space enters all the data and checks it for validity before it gets to the billing system. Granted, this person does a lot of data entry, but we have also found that they catch 99% of the errors before the numbers hit the billing system. Our system (for a club of about 150 members with about 3500 flights per year) now works like this. a. The pilot fills out a flight card before take-off with glider ID, their name and account #, type of flight and tow height. (types of flight include Intro/Famil flight, student flight, solo flight, flight in private ship etc) b. The flight card is passed to the time keeper who enters the flight on the daily log sheet, assigns a flight number and then adds take-off and landing time on the card. c. The card is a two part carbon form, where one copy goes to the accounting system and the other goes to the pilot after the flight d. The flight info from all cards is entered into our "flight card processor" (FCP). This is a program written in Visual Basic with a MS Access backbone. This converts the feet and minutes for each flight into dollars and cents. It also produces a monthly listing for each member with all the details for each flight. e. At the end of each month the FCP data is entered into the accounting system (Quickbooks) f. Statements are emailed to each member the first week of each month with a complete listing of all their flight details from the FCP, as well as all the credits/debits to their account from Quickbooks. |
#9
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On Nov 27, 2:09*pm, Dave Springford wrote:
We had a computer system running at our club about 8 years ago, but have gone back to a paper system with the data entered into the accounting system at a later time. *The intent of the computer system was to save the time punching in all the flight data. *As it turns out, it didn't actually make much difference in time-savings over the course of a year. Some of the problems are much as Dave mentions above, such as a power source at the launch point and computaphobes. Other problems included: 1. The issue of small mid-week operation not taking the computer to the launch point to enter the flights (too much effort for just a couple of flights) and then someone else having to enter all the mid- week flights before the Saturday morning operation could start. 2. Entering new members into the system at the launch point - the member database was not easily updated on the fly. 3. Errors entered into the launch point computer are transmitted directly into the billing system. *If there is no paper trail, these can be difficult to correct. With the paper system, one person in a quiet space enters all the data and checks it for validity before it gets to the billing system. Granted, this person does a lot of data entry, but we have also found that they catch 99% of the errors before the numbers hit the billing system. Our system (for a club of about 150 members with about 3500 flights per year) now works like this. a. *The pilot fills out a flight card before take-off with glider ID, their name and account #, type of flight and tow height. *(types of flight include Intro/Famil flight, student flight, solo flight, flight in private ship etc) b. *The flight card is passed to the time keeper who enters the flight on the daily log sheet, assigns a flight number and then adds take-off and landing time on the card. c. *The card is a two part carbon form, where one copy goes to the accounting system and the other goes to the pilot after the flight d. *The flight info from all cards is entered into our "flight card processor" (FCP). *This is a program written in Visual Basic with a MS Access backbone. *This converts the feet and minutes for each flight into dollars and cents. *It also produces a monthly listing for each member with all the details for each flight. e. *At the end of each month the FCP data is entered into the accounting system (Quickbooks) f. *Statements are emailed to each member the first week of each month with a complete listing of all their flight details from the FCP, as well as all the credits/debits to their account from Quickbooks. You could consider using digital pen technology with a template that specifies all the relevant flight info fields to be filled out: http://www.livescribe.com/ At least then you'd have a paper copy of all the original entries. You'd need to figure out the OCR part - which in theory would be easier as you'd know whether each field was alpha or numeric - but even so it would be a fair amount of coding. And you'd need to make sure nobody lost the pen! Bill mentions integrating with GPS loggers. While interesting I think it may be overkill for the simple purpose of getting flight times - unless you had a wireless way of downloading everything from the aircraft. Even more coding and the wireless technology on loggers isn't quite available yet. 9B |
#10
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On Nov 28, 10:10*am, Andy wrote:
On Nov 27, 2:09*pm, Dave Springford wrote: We had a computer system running at our club about 8 years ago, but have gone back to a paper system with the data entered into the accounting system at a later time. *The intent of the computer system was to save the time punching in all the flight data. *As it turns out, it didn't actually make much difference in time-savings over the course of a year. Some of the problems are much as Dave mentions above, such as a power source at the launch point and computaphobes. Other problems included: 1. The issue of small mid-week operation not taking the computer to the launch point to enter the flights (too much effort for just a couple of flights) and then someone else having to enter all the mid- week flights before the Saturday morning operation could start. 2. Entering new members into the system at the launch point - the member database was not easily updated on the fly. 3. Errors entered into the launch point computer are transmitted directly into the billing system. *If there is no paper trail, these can be difficult to correct. With the paper system, one person in a quiet space enters all the data and checks it for validity before it gets to the billing system. Granted, this person does a lot of data entry, but we have also found that they catch 99% of the errors before the numbers hit the billing system. Our system (for a club of about 150 members with about 3500 flights per year) now works like this. a. *The pilot fills out a flight card before take-off with glider ID, their name and account #, type of flight and tow height. *(types of flight include Intro/Famil flight, student flight, solo flight, flight in private ship etc) b. *The flight card is passed to the time keeper who enters the flight on the daily log sheet, assigns a flight number and then adds take-off and landing time on the card. c. *The card is a two part carbon form, where one copy goes to the accounting system and the other goes to the pilot after the flight d. *The flight info from all cards is entered into our "flight card processor" (FCP). *This is a program written in Visual Basic with a MS Access backbone. *This converts the feet and minutes for each flight into dollars and cents. *It also produces a monthly listing for each member with all the details for each flight. e. *At the end of each month the FCP data is entered into the accounting system (Quickbooks) f. *Statements are emailed to each member the first week of each month with a complete listing of all their flight details from the FCP, as well as all the credits/debits to their account from Quickbooks. You could consider using digital pen technology with a template that specifies all the relevant flight info fields to be filled out: http://www.livescribe.com/ At least then you'd have a paper copy of all the original entries. You'd need to figure out the OCR part - which in theory would be easier as you'd know whether each field was alpha or numeric - but even so it would be a fair amount of coding. *And you'd need to make sure nobody lost the pen! Bill mentions integrating with GPS loggers. While interesting I think it may be overkill for the simple purpose of getting flight times - unless you had a wireless way of downloading everything from the aircraft. Even more coding and the wireless technology on loggers isn't quite available yet. 9B Wireless tech would make a nifty system but it isn't absolutely needed. If the GPS loggers recorded on SD cards, just bring them to the club office for the software to read. You'd still have to manually log who flew which glider but the altitudes and flight durations would be perfectly accurate. |
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