Replace (Fix) ADF?

On 24-Oct-2003, "Dan Luke" c172rgATbellsouthDOTnet wrote:

The ADF still may be necessary in some instances, but they are dwindling.
I have an ADF in my airplane that I will keep using as long as it still
works, but I when it breaks, it's gone.


OK, here's a question for those familiar with use of an IFR certified GPS in
non-GPS approaches. The approach plate for the ILS at my home airport (PAE)
plainly states "ADF REQUIRED". The reason is that the missed approach
procedure calls for intercepting and tracking inbound on a specific heading
to the LOM. In looking over a bunch of approaches it is clear to me that
there are a number of ILSs that carry the ADF REQUIRED indication. My
question is, can an approach certified GPS (legally) be used in lieu of an
ADF for navigational guidance in a segment of an ILS procedure that
nominally requires an ADF? If so, how? If not, it seems to me that
ditching the ADF will close off use of many ILS procedures.
--
-Elliott Drucker

wrote in message
...

On 24-Oct-2003, "Dan Luke" c172rgATbellsouthDOTnet wrote:

The ADF still may be necessary in some instances, but they are
dwindling.
I have an ADF in my airplane that I will keep using as long as it still
works, but I when it breaks, it's gone.


OK, here's a question for those familiar with use of an IFR certified GPS
in
non-GPS approaches. The approach plate for the ILS at my home airport
(PAE)
plainly states "ADF REQUIRED". The reason is that the missed approach
procedure calls for intercepting and tracking inbound on a specific
heading
to the LOM. In looking over a bunch of approaches it is clear to me that
there are a number of ILSs that carry the ADF REQUIRED indication. My
question is, can an approach certified GPS (legally) be used in lieu of an
ADF for navigational guidance in a segment of an ILS procedure that
nominally requires an ADF? If so, how? If not, it seems to me that
ditching the ADF will close off use of many ILS procedures.
--
-Elliott Drucker

Yes. Punch 'direct-to' and put in the NDB id. Hit 'Obs' if you want to
intercept a different radial/bearing than the one that your already on.
Piece of cake!

Cheers,
John Clonts
Temple, Texas
N7NZ

wrote:
OK, here's a question for those familiar with use of an IFR
certified GPS in
non-GPS approaches. The approach plate for the ILS at my home
airport (PAE)
plainly states "ADF REQUIRED". The reason is that the missed
approach
procedure calls for intercepting and tracking inbound on a specific
heading
to the LOM. In looking over a bunch of approaches it is clear to me
that
there are a number of ILSs that carry the ADF REQUIRED indication.
My
question is, can an approach certified GPS (legally) be used in lieu
of an
ADF for navigational guidance in a segment of an ILS procedure that
nominally requires an ADF? If so, how?

From the AIM 1-1-20 f.:
6. Restrictions
(a) GPS avionics approved for terminal IFR operations may be used in
lieu of ADF and/or DME....
[snip]
(f) Charted requirements for ADF and/or DME can be met using the GPS
system, except for use as the principal instrument approach navigation
source. [unless, of course, the approach is charted as an "overlay"
approach].

To do this in the case you describe, I would press the the "direct"
button on the KLN-90B and enter the identifier for the LOM as the
waypoint. I would then have to press "enter" twice, set the GPS to OBS
mode, set the CDI scale to one mile and turn the OBS to the missed
approach course setting on the approach plate.

If I were really flying this approach, I would have already done this
stuff before I ever commenced the approach. It's really the same thing
as tuning in a VOR and setting the OBS on a conventional NAV radio.
More accurate than using the ADF and easier to fly. Oh yeah, and I
would *still* have my ADF tuned to the LOM and be watching it, too.
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

"Tom Nery" wrote in message
news:bfElb.540$9E1.5435@attbi_s52...
My '66 Cherokee 180C currently has a T12C ADF. Even though it has analog
tuning, the previous owner installed a Davitron digital frequency
read out so it's not as bad to tune as you'd think.

Anyway, it now longer points to the NDB (actually the needle never moves)
but can successfully tune am radio stations. So my choices a 1 Fix it,
2 Replace it, 3 Remove it.

My plane is currently certified for instrument operation (and I plan
on starting my IFR training shortly). I also have a Garmin 196 (primary)
and a Garmin 195 (backup - came with the plane).

Given the fact that ADF is (someday) being phased up (maybe), what is
the collective wisdom of the group? Which of the three choices
should I pursue?


Those GPS receivers won't count for much in your IFR training, but, for the
ADF, I'd dump it.

ADF approaches and transmitters are being decommissioned around the country
wholesale, and replaced by GPS approaches which are more accurate than ADF
anyway.

I noticed the price of a new Garmin 155XL IFR-certified GPS is now down to
just over $2,000.

As soon as I can I plan to get rid of both my ADF and my DME now that GPS
can substitute legally for DME. They're just taking up useful load.

If you need a solution to the loss of capability to listen to AM radio, I
just read an interesting article on AvWeb about satellite radio, which
eliminates the need to keep tuning new stations on the ADF when you fly out
of range of the stations. You have to pay $10/month for the service, but
that's pretty cheap for an elegant solution to the problem, and cheaper than
most anything else in aviation, that's for sure.

"CriticalMass"
Those GPS receivers won't count for much in your IFR training, but, for
the
ADF, I'd dump it.

ADF approaches and transmitters are being decommissioned around the
country
wholesale, and replaced by GPS approaches which are more accurate than ADF
anyway.

That's a little contradictory isn't it? If you are going to fly GPS
approaches at small airports why wouldn't it count for much in your IFR
training?

I think I know where you are coming from but that position may be a bit of a
problem. Outside of learning to do ILSs, everything else is button pushing.
Rather than practice NDB approaches with an ADF, you do the overlay with a
GPS. Same with VOR overlays. The made for GPS approaches themselves are
pretty easy but there is still button pushing and it is not self-evident -
especialy on misses and units like.....

I noticed the price of a new Garmin 155XL IFR-certified GPS is now down to
just over $2,000

Or at least the 300XL which I'm familiar with.

I agree with totally with your recommendation - but get it before you train.

In article ,
"Maule Driver" wrote:

"CriticalMass"
Those GPS receivers won't count for much in your IFR training, but, for
the
ADF, I'd dump it.

ADF approaches and transmitters are being decommissioned around the
country
wholesale, and replaced by GPS approaches which are more accurate than ADF
anyway.

That's a little contradictory isn't it? If you are going to fly GPS
approaches at small airports why wouldn't it count for much in your IFR
training?


I believe the GPS units in question were VFR units.

"Maule Driver" wrote in message
m...
"CriticalMass"
Those GPS receivers won't count for much in your IFR training, but, for
the
ADF, I'd dump it.

ADF approaches and transmitters are being decommissioned around the
country
wholesale, and replaced by GPS approaches which are more accurate than
ADF
anyway.

That's a little contradictory isn't it? If you are going to fly GPS
approaches at small airports why wouldn't it count for much in your IFR
training?

Because they're not IFR-certified. Not much more needs to be said, assuming
the proper attitude toward flying IFR in accordance with the rules has any
bearing on the matter.

CriticalMass wrote:
: Those GPS receivers won't count for much in your IFR training, but, for the
: ADF, I'd dump it.

: ADF approaches and transmitters are being decommissioned around the country
: wholesale, and replaced by GPS approaches which are more accurate than ADF
: anyway.

True enough, although getting IFR GPS's installed can be a somewhat pricey
endeavor. I went over this idea when I was putting together the panel in my Cherokee
for my IFR training. With WAAS GPS's about the depreciate all non-precision GPS's, it
seemed silly to pay big bucks to get one installed. I did my training with VOR's, a DME
(thanks to the wonderful KNS-80 bought and installed for a song), and ILS components. A
VFR GPS can be used for situational awareness, and could be used in a pinch (read:
emergency) as an ADF/DME/VOR if really necessary.

I wouldn't pay to have the ADF redone. The usual sentiment is if it's
installed, works, and you don't need more panel space, leave it in. Anything missing
from that equation and it makes more sense to ditch it.

-Cory


--
************************************************** ***********************
* The prime directive of Linux: *
* - learn what you don't know, *
* - teach what you do. *
* (Just my 20 USm$) *
************************************************** ***********************

wrote in message
...
CriticalMass wrote:
: Those GPS receivers won't count for much in your IFR training, but, for
the
: ADF, I'd dump it.

: ADF approaches and transmitters are being decommissioned around the
country
: wholesale, and replaced by GPS approaches which are more accurate than
ADF
: anyway.

The usual sentiment is if it's installed, works, and you don't need more
panel space, leave it in. Anything missing
from that equation and it makes more sense to ditch it.

I think that's what I said, isn't it?

On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 08:23:50 -0500, "CriticalMass"
wrote:


I noticed the price of a new Garmin 155XL IFR-certified GPS is now down to
just over $2,000.


not even close......

http://www.pacific-coast-avionics.co...il.asp?id=4456