Cirrus and Lancair Make Bonanza Obsolete?

Just about everyone. Especially the owners.

On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 14:07:39 -0600, "Dan Luke"
wrote:

"markjen" wrote:
Finally, a Bonanza is a much more
rugged/substantial airplane,

Says who?

Anyone that has ever flown more than an hour in each.

On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 20:15:05 GMT, "Zeno" wrote:

a Bonanza is .... arguably more comfortable

says who ?

Right now I'm this "........." close to buying a 1992 F33A and adding a
Tornado Alley Whirlwind to it. The cost will be about $255K, barely enough
to touch a Lanc or Cirrus.

And probably one of the best aircraft decisions you'll ever make.
You're REALLY going to enjoy that one. Boy, I'm envious (as will
everyone on the ramp be).

Inexperienced pilots with a pocketful of money. They view this as a
toy that's a better deal than a Bonanza, not requiring the special
skills we all need to have, even ultralighters.

On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 22:47:29 GMT, "Michael 182"
wrote:

The accident reports are pretty interesting.

There were five fatal flights:

1 - Flew into powerlines
3 - Flew into terrain
1 - spin w/out parachute deployment

Only the spin accident has a final report, which basically says the pane
entered a spin and the parachute was not deployed. No comment on whether the
parachute was tried. In a non-fatal accident a month earlier the parachute
deployment was attempted and failed.

There is not enough data or info here to draw any real conclusion, but some
speculation...

On one hand, unless there was a control failure, the flights into terrain
and powerlines appear to be pilot error. On the other hand, this many CFIT
accidents in such a short time in such a small population of planes does
cause some concern. Is the plane difficult to handle? Is it so "slippery"
that pilots are losing control? Is it being flown by pilots that can't
handle the performance - the stereotypical "doctor-killer" story?

Michael



"Tom S." wrote in message
...

The accident reports, particularly Cirrus, keep me at bay.
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/query.asp

The older ones (47) start at 185, about '55 they go to 225, '57 to
250, '62 to 260, '64 to 275, and about '75 at 300. All years are
approximations for you lawyer types.

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 02:40:25 -0800, Jeff wrote:

the SR22 is also a 310 HP engine correct?
what size engine is in the bonanzas?


wrote:

On 12-Nov-2003, (Potential Bo Buyer) wrote:

Are the Lancair Columbia and Cirrus SR22 substitute products for the
4-place Bonanzas?

At first glance the primary capability and performance difference is that a
Bonanza (model 35) will have a fairly large payload advantage over a
comparably equipped SR22. If each is fueled for a 500 nm trip with IFR
reserves a typical SR22 will have a maximum cabin payload of around 680 lbs
and a Bonanza around 925 lbs. The SR22 will probably be a few kts faster,
which is remarkable considering the fixed gear.

I guess what this shows is that composite construction allows for greater
drag reduction at a penalty of higher weight. (The SR22 has an empty weight
of 2250 lbs and older Bonanzas come in at around 1950 lbs.)

--
-Elliott Drucker

"Potential Bo Buyer" wrote in message
om...

Obsolete? Must be that planned obsolescence at Beech.

"Michael 182" wrote in message
news:5Mysb.185403$e01.666293@attbi_s02...
The accident reports are pretty interesting.

There were five fatal flights:

1 - Flew into powerlines
3 - Flew into terrain
1 - spin w/out parachute deployment

Only the spin accident has a final report, which basically says the pane
entered a spin and the parachute was not deployed. No comment on whether
the
parachute was tried. In a non-fatal accident a month earlier the parachute
deployment was attempted and failed.

There is not enough data or info here to draw any real conclusion, but
some
speculation...


Check the disparity in the non-fatal's as well.

"markjen" wrote in message
news:ViAsb.184140$Tr4.511893@attbi_s03...
There is insufficient time-in-service to really be able to say much about
Cirrus accident rates. The Concorde went from having the best airliner
accident rate to the worst with one accident.

Wrong context.

That's the problem with new
airplanes - insuffiicent experience with the fleet.

For the few numbers in service and it's short history, there's a hell of a
lot of accidents.

"Thomas Borchert" wrote in message
...
Tom,

Bonanza's, being a proven product (in contrast with Cirrus and Lancair)
will
be around after many of us are dead and gone.


Like flintstones, steam engines and the telegraph? ;-) Ever heard of
"progress"?

So let's send all the Bonanza's to the junkyard.

Let's send all the cars over 10 years old there too.

Gee, some V-tails are older than most people in this group.

Hint for the slow: We're talking USED aircraft.

"Jeff" wrote in message ...
the SR22 is also a 310 HP engine correct?
what size engine is in the bonanzas?

IO-520-BB is 285, the IO-550 is 300

Add a Tornado Alley Whirlwind and keep those numbers up to 20,000 feet.