CAVU and I'm Grounded!

"john smith" wrote in message ...

The Regs allow for operation within Class B without a transponder,
working or absent. Even under the Veil!

Yes, but it requires ATC permission. I've operated in and out of Dulles with
no transponder (doubly onerous because the primary radar at the Dulles Approach
was out at the time) but we were willing to do the "at or below 1500 runway heading
until clear" number to do it.

On Sun, 07 Mar 2004 21:20:09 +0000, Jay Honeck wrote:

However, it's not broken -- he's missing a piece of paperwork. If the thing
is working (and, as I said, ATC will let you know if something is amiss),

What if he got ramped? Would it be such a little piece of missing paper
then? Would the nice FAA guy say, "I know it's a little thing that doesn't
matter and I'm going to let you slide on it, just this once."?

Not that it would happen, but if it did...

"Matthew P. Cummings" writes:

What if he got ramped?

sarcasm ON

What if an asteroid fell on him?

What if he got in a car wreck on the way to the airport?

What if he did go flying with his illegal airplane, and ate at an
airport restaurant, and the waitress who took his order started
hitting on him 'cause he's such a fearless, reckless daredevil, and
they had an affair, and his wife found out and divorced him, and he
lost his plane?

What if life happened to him?

What if all our ancestors were all so law abiding and meek and
cautious and they had stayed home and left North America alone? Then
there would still be saber-toothed tigers in Los Angeles, maybe.

sarcasm OFF

Matthew P. Cummings wrote:
What if he got ramped? Would it be such a little piece of missing paper
then? Would the nice FAA guy say, "I know it's a little thing that doesn't
matter and I'm going to let you slide on it, just this once."?

A Ramp Check is a voluntary submission. If you think you could be
violated for any reason, do not submit to it.

What if he got ramped? Would it be such a little piece of missing paper
then?

Um, have you ever been ramp checked? I have, and:

1. They don't ask about your transponder, because...
2. There is no way for them to know your transponder is out of the 24 month
period.

Unless, of course, you carry your aircraft logs everywhere you go, and are
goofy enough to let the inspector see them?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message news:dmM2c.79638$ko6.426325@attbi_s02...
You need the transponder check even for VFR. I suspect he's close enough
to the class B to require it.

If he's in Class B, he's definitely screwed without a transponder.

Or inside an ADIZ. Or he doesn't want to fly w/o flight following.

However, it's not broken -- he's missing a piece of paperwork. If the thing
is working (and, as I said, ATC will let you know if something is amiss),
make an appointment to get the thing checked, and go fly.

As others have pointed out, missing paperwork might be no problem at
all. Or, in case of a ramp check or small incident, might turn out to
be a very big problem.

A transponder is hardly a flight-critical instrument.

Depends, we don't really know his situation. He might always like to
fly with FF, he might be inside an Bravo's veil or under an ADIZ. He
might always fly IFR.

It's always easy, and fun, to sit back and offer ideas. Useful too in
many cases, especially for low-timers like myself. But in the end,
he's PIC in this case and is most likely considering things that we're
not aware of.

-Malcolm Teas

Thanks, Malcolm! As I said in some other parts of this thread (man! how
this thing has grown!), I'm right smack under the DFW Class B. PLUS, it was
my first flight in an airplane of unknown reliability. I just had too many
unknowns to (in my view) risk it. However, the local instrument shop (Stahl
Air Instrument) to do a ramp check and sign the logbook, so it all worked
out.


"Malcolm Teas" wrote in message
om...
"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:dmM2c.79638$ko6.426325@attbi_s02...
You need the transponder check even for VFR. I suspect he's close
enough
to the class B to require it.

If he's in Class B, he's definitely screwed without a transponder.

Or inside an ADIZ. Or he doesn't want to fly w/o flight following.

However, it's not broken -- he's missing a piece of paperwork. If the
thing
is working (and, as I said, ATC will let you know if something is
amiss),
make an appointment to get the thing checked, and go fly.

As others have pointed out, missing paperwork might be no problem at
all. Or, in case of a ramp check or small incident, might turn out to
be a very big problem.

A transponder is hardly a flight-critical instrument.

Depends, we don't really know his situation. He might always like to
fly with FF, he might be inside an Bravo's veil or under an ADIZ. He
might always fly IFR.

It's always easy, and fun, to sit back and offer ideas. Useful too in
many cases, especially for low-timers like myself. But in the end,
he's PIC in this case and is most likely considering things that we're
not aware of.

-Malcolm Teas

And besides, I like the idea of flying in uncontrolled airspace
squawking VFR, at least the local controller can tell controlled a/c
"there's VFR traffic 4 miles at your 10 o'clock, we're not talking to
him." It's a little safety buffer, assuming you're close enough to be
picked up by their radar.

One time I was prohibited from entering Class C airspace when the
controller determined the error in the xponder's altitude reporting
was greater than the FAR's allowed.

Greg Hopp
N4691X
Cols, OH

Tried to reply last night, but I screwed up..

I'm inside the DFW Class B ring - gotta have one.

This was to be my first flight in my first airplane. I have not rec'd my
insurance policy even, yet. I've "heard" that insurance wouldn't pay if you
screwed the FARs.

First flight of my first bird (an unknown quantity) = a bit more risk than
I would take if I had been flying it for some time.

AS IT TURNED OUT, I went out to the airport anyway, and was crying on my
A&P's shoulder. He mentioned that he happened to see the instrument shop's
door open, and suggested I go talk to that guy.

I went in and introduced myself, and the guy set me up for an appointment
later this week. As we were talking, and I was telling him about just
getting the plane and all, he said, "oh what the heck", grabbed his ramp
tester, and said "let's go get you certified". Which we did, so I flew. And
flew. And had a great time.

Nice guys *do* exist in aviation!

Carl

"Carl Orton" wrote in message
...
ARRRRGHH!

Just took possession of a '67 172 on Monday. Aside from work obligations
and
IFR weather in the DFW area the past week, I was really really really
looking forward to this morning (Sat) to take my first flight alone in the
new bird.

Going over the logs once again last night (about the 4th time...) it
suddenly hits me - there's no record of a 24 month transponder check!!!
Grounded!!! Of all the checks we did on the pre-purchase, that one
slipped
by. Shame on me. And it is one heckuva beeeyoutiful day out there.
*sigh*

Oh well; that's the joy of aircraft ownership, I guess.....

Carl

Nice guys *do* exist in aviation!


You sound surprised at this. OF COURSE they do . . . and in a higher
percentage than in the general population (in my experience). I could reel off
scores of examples where friendly FBOs, mechanics, and other pilots have
extended a helping hand to me over almost 30 years of flying. From opening
after hours to get me fuel, to providing cars for ground transport, to letting
me copy needed approach plates, to making small repairs
for NO money . . . the comraderie among GA is among it's biggest attractions.
www.Rosspilot.com