First Time Buyer. Help!

"Dude" wrote in message
...

See my disagreement with this above. In my mind, a pilot should get over
a
hundred hours (more is better) before stepping up to anything more than a
180hp or less trainer. Most people take 2 years to fly that 100 hours.

Absolutely... Beyond a doubt a pilot with under 100 hours does not know yet
what his/her long-term flying mission is and buying an airplane at that time
is probably not a good idea.

Perhaps your advice is too general? Maybe its even best for the majority,
but in my mind, not the overwhelming majority.

It is the very rare pilot indeed who at less than 100 hours has a good feel
for what airplane will suit his long-term flying missions.

And it is the very rare pilot indeed who at less than 100 hours has a good
grasp of the economics of airplane ownership.


--
Richard Kaplan, CFII

www.flyimc.com

Don't just buy a cessna because you trained in it.

There are several other models available that are appropriate to low time
pilots.

I like the idea of renting around in order to compare models. You may also
find that some private owners will give you a ride, but don't expect them to
let you do anything other than a few turns.

There is a wide amount of choices in your price range that vary a lot on
load, handling, stability, fun, etc. Don't worry too much about speed
because it tends to cost more than its worth to most buyers in your range.
Getting speed always means giving up something else.

"KayInPA" wrote in message
om...
Hello,

I am seriously considering the purchase of an airplane and would like
to ask the group for potential dos and don'ts. I would so appreciate
any guidance, advice, or practical tips other pilots in this newsgroup
could offer. Also, to ask about any financial considerations that my
not be obvious to a first time owner.

If I decide to go forward, I'll be buying the airplane with a partner;
a friend of mine who is beginning his instrument studies. We are
looking in the $60k - $100k price range and prefer Cessnas because
we're training in 172s. However, if we find the right deal, other
manufacturers might also be considered.

Thanks so much in advance for any help you could give us.

--
Kay
Student Pilot
email: remove "ns" from the end of aviationns

On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 22:47:08 GMT, "Dude" wrote:

Don't just buy a cessna because you trained in it.

Also to consider is that the field we are training on is on the short
side, and turf. But you're right, that airport may not be ultimately
where we end up basing the airplane. I actually do like Piper
aircraft very well. I trained in a Warrior the first 20 hours of my
lessons and *still* miss the visibility in the pattern with the low
wing. I also miss its throttle placement. And its manual flaps.

I do not miss its single door though.

I like the idea of renting around in order to compare models. You may also
find that some private owners will give you a ride, but don't expect them to
let you do anything other than a few turns.

I take every ride I can, and have had the opportunity to fly in some
beautiful airplanes! My favorite so far was a Commanche. It was
meticulous... a little out of my reach at the moment though.

There is a wide amount of choices in your price range that vary a lot on
load, handling, stability, fun, etc. Don't worry too much about speed
because it tends to cost more than its worth to most buyers in your range.
Getting speed always means giving up something else.

This is something to consider. It's very tempting to try and get a
fast airplane. But I think you're right, and also: how fast can you
get within our price range and still have a solid aircraft with few
squawks?

And no matter what, you'll always want it to be faster right? A friend
of mine just bought a turbo Arrow, and is already complaining it isn't
fast enough.

My thoughts are that we need to get something reasonable for longer
cross countries, but if there's an overwhelming need to get somewhere
quickly it's pretty easy to call US Air. Know what I mean?

Thank you so much for your post. This piece about speed consideration
is very valuable.

--
Kay
Student Pilot
email: remove "ns" from "aviationns"









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"KayInPA" wrote in message
...

This is something to consider. It's very tempting to try and get a
fast airplane. But I think you're right, and also: how fast can you
get within our price range and still have a solid aircraft with few
squawks?

Mid-1960's vintage Mooneys can be an excellent value for a 130-knot
airplane -- perhaps cheaper than a 182.

Insuring a retractable like a Mooney will probably be a lot easier for you
after you get your IFR rating --- yet another reason to hold off on an
airplane purchase for now.


--
Richard Kaplan, CFII

www.flyimc.com

This is something to consider. It's very tempting to try and get a
fast airplane. But I think you're right, and also: how fast can you
get within our price range and still have a solid aircraft with few
squawks?

Mid-1960's vintage Mooneys can be an excellent value for a 130-knot
airplane.

That would be an awfully slow Mooney. My 1967 'C' model (the slowest
model of the mid 1960s Mooneys) does 140-145 kt. The 'E' models are 5-7
kts faster.

KR

"Ken Reed" wrote in message
...

That would be an awfully slow Mooney. My 1967 'C' model (the slowest
model of the mid 1960s Mooneys) does 140-145 kt. The 'E' models are 5-7
kts faster.

I am talking "real" cruise numbers at realistic power settings below 10,000
feet. I used to own a 1967 Mooney M20C and if I flight planned for 130
knots it would work out just about right.

How fast is my current Cessna P210? Well, the book says it can fly 198
knots at 23,000 feet. That is true (+/- winds aloft and time to climb) but
the "real" flight planning speed is 160 knots.

By comparison, I would use 100 knots as a "real" speed for a C172.

--
Richard Kaplan, CFII

www.flyimc.com

In article ,
KayInPA wrote:
This is something to consider. It's very tempting to try and get a
fast airplane.

Do the math on a few flights before you swoon for "fast". Sure, there's
a big difference between my Comanche and a C-152, but the 10-15kts I have
on a C-182 only save 10-15 minutes on a 3 hour flight.

And no matter what, you'll always want it to be faster right? A friend
of mine just bought a turbo Arrow, and is already complaining it isn't
fast enough.

A Turbo * isn't that fast. The book numbers look good, but you have to
fly high to take advantage. If you're "in PA" (instead of, say, CO)
most of the time the Turbo isn't going to matter at all.

Take an Arrow III. The non turbo models list 137kt cruise. The turbos
claim 172kts. So what you know is that at 7000-8000' (the highest
altitude that a non-turbo engine can make 75% power) BOTH Arrows cruise
at about 137kts and IF you climb the Turbo Arrow into the mid-teens it
will go faster.

--
Ben Jackson

http://www.ben.com/

"Ben Jackson" wrote in message
news:1bZbc.179169$1p.2133112@attbi_s54...

Do the math on a few flights before you swoon for "fast". Sure, there's
a big difference between my Comanche and a C-152, but the 10-15kts I have
on a C-182 only save 10-15 minutes on a 3 hour flight.

Another consideration is that if someone plans to upgrade to other airplanes
in the future, it is very helpful to buy and build time in a retractable
airplane. An older Mooney costs about the same as a C182, but Mooney time
is more valuable from an insurer's perspective for a pilot who may step up
to other airplanes in the future.

A Turbo * isn't that fast. The book numbers look good, but you have to
fly high to take advantage. If you're "in PA" (instead of, say, CO)

The main advantage of a Turbo is not speed; it is sustained rate of climb to
altitude, which allows you to (1) operate easier at high density altitude
airports; and (2) climb higher to take advantage of tailwinds and/or get on
top of weather. Number (2) is usually not practical unless the airplane
also has known-icing and spherics equipment, which is unlikely for a first
airplane.

--
Richard Kaplan, CFII

www.flyimc.com

Ben Jackson wrote:

If you're "in PA" (instead of, say, CO)
most of the time the Turbo isn't going to matter at all.

Depends on where you're going. It will be real handy getting over the top of the many
class-B airports in this area.

George Patterson
This marriage is off to a shaky start. The groom just asked the band to
play "Your cheatin' heart", and the bride just requested "Don't come home
a'drinkin' with lovin' on your mind".

In article ,
G.R. Patterson III wrote:
Ben Jackson wrote:
If you're "in PA" (instead of, say, CO)
most of the time the Turbo isn't going to matter at all.

Depends on where you're going. It will be real handy getting over the
top of the many
class-B airports in this area.

What is the cruise-climb setting for a turbo Arrow? Can you run them
at 100% clear up to 10000' MSL?

--
Ben Jackson

http://www.ben.com/