Talk About A Rude Company,

"NW_PILOT" wrote in message
...
I just called http://www.guaranteedflighttraining.com up after e-mailing
them about instrument flight training and they responded with a sales
pitch
with out even addressing my questions, So I called then today talked with
a
guy named mike well he was very rude, evasive and avoided answering simple
questions. When I asked him what their guarantee was he said why don't you
get flight instruction up there...

NW, the web site you cite explains their guarantee: if you don't obtain your
rating by the time they quoted you, your remaining training for the rating
will be free of flight-instruction charges.

--Gary

"Gary Drescher" wrote in message
...
"NW_PILOT" wrote in message
...
I just called http://www.guaranteedflighttraining.com up after e-mailing
them about instrument flight training and they responded with a sales
pitch
with out even addressing my questions, So I called then today talked
with
a
guy named mike well he was very rude, evasive and avoided answering
simple
questions. When I asked him what their guarantee was he said why don't
you
get flight instruction up there...

NW, the web site you cite explains their guarantee: if you don't obtain
your
rating by the time they quoted you, your remaining training for the rating
will be free of flight-instruction charges.

--Gary



When I called them and asked them for a quote and to see their written
guarantee they avoid the question. Call any legitimate company that offers a
written guarantee they will let you see the guarantee or read it to you over
the phone. There has to be some sort of catch if they avoid the question or
there is actually no written guarantee. I am not going to travel to their
flight school if they cannot back up what they say on their web site with a
legal written document. They could fax me a copy of it e-mail me a copy of
it for my review they could post their guarantee on their web site. It is my
responsibility as a customer to do due diligence on anyone I deal with and I
was just sharing my experience about that company, they were very rude and
unprofessional!

On 12/17/04 9:53 PM, in article ,
"NW_PILOT" wrote:


When I called them and asked them for a quote and to see their written
guarantee they avoid the question. Call any legitimate company that offers a
written guarantee they will let you see the guarantee or read it to you over
the phone. There has to be some sort of catch if they avoid the question or
there is actually no written guarantee. I am not going to travel to their
flight school if they cannot back up what they say on their web site with a
legal written document. They could fax me a copy of it e-mail me a copy of
it for my review they could post their guarantee on their web site. It is my
responsibility as a customer to do due diligence on anyone I deal with and I
was just sharing my experience about that company, they were very rude and
unprofessional!




From what I understood of the guarantee posted on their website
(http://www.guaranteedflighttraining.com/gft.htm), it appears that they need
to assess you in person before they can give an estimate of how long it will
take you to attain the certificate or rating.

It sounds like they recognize that everyone is different and it wouldn't be
practical to give a quote over the phone for something as personalized as
time to solo or pass the practical.

The "catch" that I noticed was that outside of the quoted time frame, you
won't pay for the instruction, meaning you will pay for Hobbs time.
--
Jeff 'The Wizard of Draws' Bucchino
Cartoons with a Touch of Magic�
http://www.wizardofdraws.com
http://www.cartoonclipart.com

The Wizard's 2004 Christmas newsletter
http://www.wizardofdraws.com/main/xmas04.html

"NW_PILOT" wrote in message
...

"Gary Drescher" wrote in message
NW, the web site you cite explains their guarantee: if you don't
obtain your rating by the time they quoted you, your remaining
training for the rating will be free of flight-instruction charges.

When I called them and asked them for a quote and to see their
written guarantee they avoid the question.

I guess I don't see why the statement on their web site doesn't constitute a
written guarantee. (The quoted time presumably depends on their assessment
of your experience and ability, and so requires them to know more about
you.)

--Gary

Unfortunately, Seattle Flight Service, Inc. no longer exists...but when it
did, I had no problem in shepherding students through their instrument
training 12 months out of the year.

Bob Gardner

"NW_PILOT" wrote in message
...
Hello, Everyone

I just called http://www.guaranteedflighttraining.com up after e-mailing
them about instrument flight training and they responded with a sales
pitch
with out even addressing my questions, So I called then today talked with
a
guy named mike well he was very rude, evasive and avoided answering simple
questions. When I asked him what their guarantee was he said why don't you
get flight instruction up there I told him I was looking for a better
value
and the weather up here is not ideal for training environment most all
instructors will not go up in actual because flight FBO will not allow
insurance I guess or they are not comfortable with being in actual them
selves. He then asked me if I had my written test done, I said no I have
been studying but have not been signed off for the test. He then was very
rude and said Don't understand why the instructors would fly with you out
there. I told him it is not me it's their preference fbo insurance ect. he
hangs up on me that is rude. Don't deal with them they sound like a fly by
night operation out to take large sums of money and close down.

This Company Has Triggered My Bull**** Detector.

Company Owner's Information:

Michael Upton
Guaranteed Flight Training
4142 Bannock Ave
San Diego, CA US
92117

If there was an outfit that actually had a guarantee that they would
provide the extra hours necessary to complete the program without an
extra charge, they would have to charge all the students extra to cover
the occasional student that needed the extra time. I know of no
reputable flight school that offers such a guarantee. Free time in the
air doesn't exist, SOMEONE has to pay for it!!! Repeat the
aforementioned sentence until you believe it.

If you want to get your rating quickly, and it minimum hours, why don't
you go to Schelble's or some similar outfit that is geared towards
getting your through the program in minimum hours. Look for an outfit
that, when you arrive, they schedule your checkride. Downside is, you
have to pay room and board while you are there. The frustration factor
is lowered however and you get to compare yourself with other student's
(a humbling experience for many of us), because many of these schools
have a student ride in the backseat to observe (and learn).

Be aware that if you go this route, you will have to be prepared to
train YOURSELF to be a safe proficient IFR pilot, probably by setting
higher minimums on cloud decks and more stringent restrictions due to
weather for your first few hours in IMC. This is not bad advice for
most pilots coming out of training, anyway.

wrote in message
oups.com...
If there was an outfit that actually had a guarantee that they would
provide the extra hours necessary to complete the program without an
extra charge, they would have to charge all the students extra to cover
the occasional student that needed the extra time. I know of no
reputable flight school that offers such a guarantee. Free time in the
air doesn't exist, SOMEONE has to pay for it!!! Repeat the
aforementioned sentence until you believe it.

If you want to get your rating quickly, and it minimum hours, why don't
you go to Schelble's or some similar outfit that is geared towards
getting your through the program in minimum hours. Look for an outfit
that, when you arrive, they schedule your checkride. Downside is, you
have to pay room and board while you are there. The frustration factor
is lowered however and you get to compare yourself with other student's
(a humbling experience for many of us), because many of these schools
have a student ride in the backseat to observe (and learn).

Be aware that if you go this route, you will have to be prepared to
train YOURSELF to be a safe proficient IFR pilot, probably by setting
higher minimums on cloud decks and more stringent restrictions due to
weather for your first few hours in IMC. This is not bad advice for
most pilots coming out of training, anyway.


Thanks for your advice, I am not looking for the 2 week warrior type of
training but I may have to resort to that, I am just looking for an honest
company to deal with I would work locally if the fbo's were reasonable
priced for the quality and type of instruction I will be receiving and
aircraft I will be flying. I would like to be a competent & safe IFR pilot.

NW_PILOT wrote:

wrote in message
oups.com...

If there was an outfit that actually had a guarantee that they would
provide the extra hours necessary to complete the program without an
extra charge, they would have to charge all the students extra to cover
the occasional student that needed the extra time. I know of no
reputable flight school that offers such a guarantee. Free time in the
air doesn't exist, SOMEONE has to pay for it!!! Repeat the
aforementioned sentence until you believe it.

If you want to get your rating quickly, and it minimum hours, why don't
you go to Schelble's or some similar outfit that is geared towards
getting your through the program in minimum hours. Look for an outfit
that, when you arrive, they schedule your checkride. Downside is, you
have to pay room and board while you are there. The frustration factor
is lowered however and you get to compare yourself with other student's
(a humbling experience for many of us), because many of these schools
have a student ride in the backseat to observe (and learn).

Be aware that if you go this route, you will have to be prepared to
train YOURSELF to be a safe proficient IFR pilot, probably by setting
higher minimums on cloud decks and more stringent restrictions due to
weather for your first few hours in IMC. This is not bad advice for
most pilots coming out of training, anyway.



Thanks for your advice, I am not looking for the 2 week warrior type of
training but I may have to resort to that, I am just looking for an honest
company to deal with I would work locally if the fbo's were reasonable
priced for the quality and type of instruction I will be receiving and
aircraft I will be flying. I would like to be a competent & safe IFR pilot.

I don't know why you think that it is only your area that has bad FBOs
and poor flight instruction. There are good and bad everywhere, it
isn't localized to just your region. The reality is that there is very
little margin in flight instruction and airplane rental these days.
Most FBOs are working on the edge of bankruptcy and they have to be at
least as careful about their students as the students must be about
their instructors. It sounds to me that you come across, probably
unintentionally, as a "high maintenance" student who will only cause the
FBO grief later with your desire for guarantees. There are no
guarantees in life and certainly not in flight instruction. Almost all
of the guarantees have fine print with a number of exclusions.

I'd say quit looking for guarantees and look instead for a good flight
instructor and a decent aircraft. It is certainly OK to qualify the FBO
and instructor, but once you get to the 20th question and start asking
for guarantees, I don't blame them for writing you off as potential
trouble and hanging up. The best question to ask is for a list of their
references. Try to get the last 5 students (not just any 5 which allows
them to pick the happy ones only). This may not be possible due to
privacy concerns, but it is an easy question to ask and, if successful
in getting the list, saves having to ask 19 more questions and beginning
to raise the "high maintenance" red flag.


Matt

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
NW_PILOT wrote:

wrote in message
oups.com...

If there was an outfit that actually had a guarantee that they would
provide the extra hours necessary to complete the program without an
extra charge, they would have to charge all the students extra to cover
the occasional student that needed the extra time. I know of no
reputable flight school that offers such a guarantee. Free time in the
air doesn't exist, SOMEONE has to pay for it!!! Repeat the
aforementioned sentence until you believe it.

If you want to get your rating quickly, and it minimum hours, why don't
you go to Schelble's or some similar outfit that is geared towards
getting your through the program in minimum hours. Look for an outfit
that, when you arrive, they schedule your checkride. Downside is, you
have to pay room and board while you are there. The frustration factor
is lowered however and you get to compare yourself with other student's
(a humbling experience for many of us), because many of these schools
have a student ride in the backseat to observe (and learn).

Be aware that if you go this route, you will have to be prepared to
train YOURSELF to be a safe proficient IFR pilot, probably by setting
higher minimums on cloud decks and more stringent restrictions due to
weather for your first few hours in IMC. This is not bad advice for
most pilots coming out of training, anyway.



Thanks for your advice, I am not looking for the 2 week warrior type of
training but I may have to resort to that, I am just looking for an
honest
company to deal with I would work locally if the fbo's were reasonable
priced for the quality and type of instruction I will be receiving and
aircraft I will be flying. I would like to be a competent & safe IFR
pilot.

I don't know why you think that it is only your area that has bad FBOs
and poor flight instruction. There are good and bad everywhere, it
isn't localized to just your region. The reality is that there is very
little margin in flight instruction and airplane rental these days.
Most FBOs are working on the edge of bankruptcy and they have to be at
least as careful about their students as the students must be about
their instructors. It sounds to me that you come across, probably
unintentionally, as a "high maintenance" student who will only cause the
FBO grief later with your desire for guarantees. There are no
guarantees in life and certainly not in flight instruction. Almost all
of the guarantees have fine print with a number of exclusions.

I'd say quit looking for guarantees and look instead for a good flight
instructor and a decent aircraft. It is certainly OK to qualify the FBO
and instructor, but once you get to the 20th question and start asking
for guarantees, I don't blame them for writing you off as potential
trouble and hanging up. The best question to ask is for a list of their
references. Try to get the last 5 students (not just any 5 which allows
them to pick the happy ones only). This may not be possible due to
privacy concerns, but it is an easy question to ask and, if successful
in getting the list, saves having to ask 19 more questions and beginning
to raise the "high maintenance" red flag.


Matt

Hello, Matt

I am not looking for any guarantees in the instruction or amount of time I
know that's impoosible to do, it just cought my eye and wonderd what type of
writen guarante they provided. The only guarantees I am looking for is:

That the flight instructor going to be around for a certain amount of time
to finish my training?
That the flight school is financially stable and not in a sale or on the
verge of bankruptcy.
I want my instruction and rental rates guaranteed for a certain amount of
time I don't what them raising the rates as I progress in training it has
happened once already to me they raised the rates 3 times in 2 months at one
flight school.
I want to know if they have enough aircraft if one breaks down or has a
problem it will be fixed in a timly monor or I will have another aircraft to
fly at the same rental rate and that they don't plan on getting rid of the
aircraft anytime soon.

I am not asking for to much I just want to know that I am dealing with a
honest company that's not going to use fraud or deception to make a quick
dollar.

NW_PILOT wrote:

I am not looking for any guarantees in the instruction or amount of time I
know that's impoosible to do, it just cought my eye and wonderd what type of
writen guarante they provided. The only guarantees I am looking for is:

That the flight instructor going to be around for a certain amount of time
to finish my training?

You will never get that guarantee. I don't think any business will even
attempt to guarantee that and in most cases can't do it legally.
Indentured servitude went out the window years ago. In our "employment
at will" system, anyone can quit when they want and be fired at any time
by their employer. This is a case of an unreasonable expectation. I
had four flight instructors during my instrument training, including one
at FlightSafety in Lakeland, FL (since closed), that was a complete
disaster. I'd heard a lot of hype about FS, but that location didn't
live up to the hype even a little. It was worse than the two mom & pop
FBOs that I used (one before FS and one after). I finally found a great
free-lance instructor and finished my rating quickly.


That the flight school is financially stable and not in a sale or on the
verge of bankruptcy.

Very few private companies will disclose their financials. The only way
to know this is to only look at public corporations that offer flight
instruction. Their are probably a few of the big ones that are, but you
won't find many.


I want my instruction and rental rates guaranteed for a certain amount of
time I don't what them raising the rates as I progress in training it has
happened once already to me they raised the rates 3 times in 2 months at one
flight school.

Again, this isn't a reasonably request given the volatility of fuel
prices, insurance, etc. The only way you might get this is if you pay
the full estimated cost in advance. You are willing to do that, right?


I want to know if they have enough aircraft if one breaks down or has a
problem it will be fixed in a timly monor or I will have another aircraft to
fly at the same rental rate and that they don't plan on getting rid of the
aircraft anytime soon.

Again, very unlikely you will ever get a guarantee on this. And, again,
you have now pretty well ruled out most mom & pop FBOs and will need to
look only at large outfits such as FS, American Flyers, etc., which come
with their own baggage.


I am not asking for to much I just want to know that I am dealing with a
honest company that's not going to use fraud or deception to make a quick
dollar.

You are expecting way too much for this business in today's environment.
You are asking for way more than honesty and lack of fraud, you are
asking for guarantees on things that no business, let along an FBO, can
provide. I can see now why you had such a bad experience on the phone
with the San Diego FBO. You problem is staring at you from your
bathroom mirror, I believe.


Matt