B-17s straffing & IJN Aoba, & UK POWs

Il 06/04/2012 19:59, Gordon ha scritto:

I'm impressed that they patrolled for reported (MAGIC) enemy carriers,
trusting their lives to their ability to hide from the CAP in whatever
clouds they might find.

"This is Strawberry Five. Have sighted enemy fleet. Please notify
next of kin."

almost as classic as, "Peccavi."

well, in the Med was admitted the use (and sacrifice) of the air recon
for covering ULTRA, but OTOH, intel decrypt can't pinpoint an enemy
formation, and in many cases cant' notify in time, if even possible,
sudden changes in enemy plans; Med example again, in many case Italians
cancels or delay convoys, and I guess that from the Maltese logistics's
perspective is much better a recon a/c on empty sea than an torpedo
bomber squadron and fighter escort on empty sea...

Best regards from Italy,
dott. Piergiorgio.

[truly extraneous X-post removed with the utmost prejudice]

On Apr 6, 9:55*pm, Dan wrote:
On 4/6/2012 10:24 PM, Peter Stickney wrote:

The PBY is an amazing beast - I've never been inside one, but I've seen
a couple of them fly.

* * If you ever get the chance to go to Pensacola NAS the museum has a
cutaway Catalina fuselage. They may look big on the outside, but they
are crowded inside. Take a look at:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/shutter...09/4728119350/


That makes me happy, actually. That cutaway fuselage used to be
integral to the base survival school -- I have photos of it internally
and externally when I was going through aircrew candidate school in
81. When the survival school was condemned (it was from the 40s and
was not in very good shape even when I was there) a few years back,
quite a few of us cried foul and ultimately the Cat was saved. Back
in the day, the interior was completely restored, with all the
original equipment (weapons, SAR gear, electronics, etc.) that a
wartime aircraft would be expected to carry. Beside it was a full
size diorama of a pilot in his life raft, with all his goodies laid
out on the inflated part. Several years later, we overflew LCDR JM
Twiss, down at sea after his A-7 stalled. I had a momentary smile
when I realized he had all of his gear laid out on his raft-edge, just
like at the survival school we had both attended.


* *If I wanted to make a comparison to B-17, it is cramped inside in
some places and open in other. To give you an idea stroll inside a B-17
from cockpit to aft crew door. The bracing for the bomb bay cat walk
makes one walk sideways even when bombs aren't present. I must admit I
had a bit of a belly last time I did that and it was a tight squeeze.
The waist, nose, cockpit and radio sections of B-17 are fairly roomy.
There are spaces and restrictions in the PBY. The engineer's feet block
the top foot or so of the cockpit door. If you want to open the blisters
you do so on your knees. Neither was built for luxury, but both had
character.

* *Plan on taking a full day at the museum if you go. The displays are
jammed together so photography can be a bit tricky.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

On 4/7/2012 11:27 AM, Gordon wrote:
On Apr 6, 9:55 pm, wrote:
On 4/6/2012 10:24 PM, Peter Stickney wrote:

The PBY is an amazing beast - I've never been inside one, but I've seen
a couple of them fly.

If you ever get the chance to go to Pensacola NAS the museum has a
cutaway Catalina fuselage. They may look big on the outside, but they
are crowded inside. Take a look at:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/shutter...09/4728119350/


That makes me happy, actually. That cutaway fuselage used to be
integral to the base survival school -- I have photos of it internally
and externally when I was going through aircrew candidate school in
81. When the survival school was condemned (it was from the 40s and
was not in very good shape even when I was there) a few years back,
quite a few of us cried foul and ultimately the Cat was saved. Back
in the day, the interior was completely restored, with all the
original equipment (weapons, SAR gear, electronics, etc.) that a
wartime aircraft would be expected to carry. Beside it was a full
size diorama of a pilot in his life raft, with all his goodies laid
out on the inflated part. Several years later, we overflew LCDR JM
Twiss, down at sea after his A-7 stalled. I had a momentary smile
when I realized he had all of his gear laid out on his raft-edge, just
like at the survival school we had both attended.


Gordon, the Navy knows how to put on a good display when they want
to. The cutaway has mannequins dressed in period flying kit placed in
several crew positions. This gives a better sense of scale than one gets
just standing next to it. If you get a chance to visit the museum it is
worth the time.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

On Apr 7, 9:53*am, Dan wrote:
On 4/7/2012 11:27 AM, Gordon wrote:









On Apr 6, 9:55 pm, *wrote:
On 4/6/2012 10:24 PM, Peter Stickney wrote:

The PBY is an amazing beast - I've never been inside one, but I've seen
a couple of them fly.

* * *If you ever get the chance to go to Pensacola NAS the museum has a
cutaway Catalina fuselage. They may look big on the outside, but they
are crowded inside. Take a look at:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/shutter...09/4728119350/

That makes me happy, actually. *That cutaway fuselage used to be
integral to the base survival school -- I have photos of it internally
and externally when I was going through aircrew candidate school in
81. *When the survival school was condemned (it was from the 40s and
was not in very good shape even when I was there) a few years back,
quite a few of us cried foul and ultimately the Cat was saved. *Back
in the day, the interior was completely restored, with all the
original equipment (weapons, SAR gear, electronics, etc.) that a
wartime aircraft would be expected to carry. *Beside it was a full
size diorama of a pilot in his life raft, with all his goodies laid
out on the inflated part. *Several years later, we overflew LCDR JM
Twiss, down at sea after his A-7 stalled. *I had a momentary smile
when I realized he had all of his gear laid out on his raft-edge, just
like at the survival school we had both attended.

* * Gordon, the Navy knows how to put on a good display when they want
to. The cutaway has mannequins dressed in period flying kit placed in
several crew positions. This gives a better sense of scale than one gets
just standing next to it. If you get a chance to visit the museum it is
worth the time.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

i haven't been to that museum since the very early 90s, but I work
with their staff probably on a monthly basis... time to arrange some
Space A travel to P'cola

On 4/7/2012 12:23 PM, Gordon wrote:
On Apr 7, 9:53 am, wrote:
On 4/7/2012 11:27 AM, Gordon wrote:









On Apr 6, 9:55 pm, wrote:
On 4/6/2012 10:24 PM, Peter Stickney wrote:

The PBY is an amazing beast - I've never been inside one, but I've seen
a couple of them fly.

If you ever get the chance to go to Pensacola NAS the museum has a
cutaway Catalina fuselage. They may look big on the outside, but they
are crowded inside. Take a look at:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/shutter...09/4728119350/

That makes me happy, actually. That cutaway fuselage used to be
integral to the base survival school -- I have photos of it internally
and externally when I was going through aircrew candidate school in
81. When the survival school was condemned (it was from the 40s and
was not in very good shape even when I was there) a few years back,
quite a few of us cried foul and ultimately the Cat was saved. Back
in the day, the interior was completely restored, with all the
original equipment (weapons, SAR gear, electronics, etc.) that a
wartime aircraft would be expected to carry. Beside it was a full
size diorama of a pilot in his life raft, with all his goodies laid
out on the inflated part. Several years later, we overflew LCDR JM
Twiss, down at sea after his A-7 stalled. I had a momentary smile
when I realized he had all of his gear laid out on his raft-edge, just
like at the survival school we had both attended.

Gordon, the Navy knows how to put on a good display when they want
to. The cutaway has mannequins dressed in period flying kit placed in
several crew positions. This gives a better sense of scale than one gets
just standing next to it. If you get a chance to visit the museum it is
worth the time.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

i haven't been to that museum since the very early 90s, but I work
with their staff probably on a monthly basis... time to arrange some
Space A travel to P'cola

They did a major rebuild a few years ago. I was last there in
December. They are still expanding.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

On 4/7/2012 4:55 PM, Dan wrote:
On 4/6/2012 10:24 PM, Peter Stickney wrote:
The PBY is an amazing beast - I've never been inside one, but I've seen
a couple of them fly.


If you ever get the chance to go to Pensacola NAS the museum has a
cutaway Catalina fuselage. They may look big on the outside, but they
are crowded inside. Take a look at:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/shutter...09/4728119350/

If I wanted to make a comparison to B-17, it is cramped inside in
some places and open in other. To give you an idea stroll inside a
B-17 from cockpit to aft crew door. The bracing for the bomb bay cat
walk makes one walk sideways even when bombs aren't present. I must
admit I had a bit of a belly last time I did that and it was a tight
squeeze. The waist, nose, cockpit and radio sections of B-17 are
fairly roomy. There are spaces and restrictions in the PBY. The
engineer's feet block the top foot or so of the cockpit door. If you
want to open the blisters you do so on your knees. Neither was built
for luxury, but both had character.

Plan on taking a full day at the museum if you go. The displays are
jammed together so photography can be a bit tricky.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired



We have one here currently airworthy that shows up at Airshows.
All the Airline pilots who can't afford WW2 fighters are lined up to get
ratings on it

On 4/7/2012 1:23 PM, Gordon wrote:

i haven't been to that museum since the very early 90s, but I work
with their staff probably on a monthly basis... time to arrange some
Space A travel to P'cola

While you're at it, check the Blue Angel's practice schedule. The link
is on this page:http://www.blueangels.navy.mil/show/ 8 months out of
the year, they have practice dates right behind the museum at Pensacola.
It is really a great way to see them. And free!

I can't tell you why, but what really sticks in my mind about the naval
air museum is their lighter-than-air exhibits. I don't know anywhere
else in the world you can see that stuff.

Vaughn

In article 32ad7fe8-20d2-453a-a9a8-
, - Gordon
spouted !

On Apr 6, 2:37*am, "Jim Wilkins" wrote:
"Nightjar" wrote in message

...









On 03/04/2012 17:49, David E. Powell wrote:
On Apr 3, 1:18 am, Bill *wrote:
wrote:
So, by then, the B-17 crews had figured out that high altitude
level
bombing of moving ships wasn't working out very well?

Did anyone ever try equipping the B-17 with torpedoes?

Well, sorta.

http://tinyurl.com/7sr3lmu

Thank you! If this was 1940 than this stuff is huge! It's huge
either
way, but wow!

The GT-1 does not seem to have been tested until 1943, so the
caption has to be wrong. The British Toraplane, a similar air
launched gliding torpedo was around in 1940*, but, of course, that
would not have been launched from a B-17.

* Work started in 1939 but was abandoned in 1942, as it proved to be
very inaccurate.

Colin Bignell

A field-expedient PBY torpedo attack from Guadalcanal:http://www.daveswarbirds.com/cactus/jackcram.htm

For decades, we had a docent taking tickets at our front desk that
kept a photo nearby of his "Black Cat" following a successful mission
- they were hit on their run and a shell carried away one of their
props, narrowly missing the cockpit as it careened on by with a roar.
Already committed, the pilot got his bombs off and accounted for a
troop ship with his single-engine Catalina. Just a little reminder
that men that go to war in elegant, pedestrian seaplanes are just a
little different than most.

My late father-in-law flew as an AM in various models of PBY during WW2.

I could never get him to talk about that part of his Navy career..